00:00
let's just say five million salespeople in the United States, there are five million distinct, unique ways to sell. The goal should be for a manager is to say, how can I help this person that's selling become the best version of themselves? Here's the reality. If you're in sales and there was a study that came out, 82% of buyers will look at a salesperson's LinkedIn profile before they speak to them first time.

00:25
What are they looking for? The hardest part of ending is starting again. You're listening to the Radcast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hey guys, welcome to the listeners of the Radcast. Ryan Alford, your host. We're talking sales today, we're talking humans, we're talking Andy Paul. What's up, Andy? Hey Ryan, thank you for having me on the show. Hey, my pleasure.

00:53
sell without selling out. I love the name. I'm digging the book. I know you can help a lot of people today with sales enablement. Yeah, well, thank you for having me on. Yeah, it's, yeah, books are a particular passion project. Mine is, somebody asked me once, why did you write this book at this time? And I said, well, because based on all the work I do with companies and salespeople and the conversations I have on my podcast is...

01:22
Sad fact is we're just not getting any better at this whole business of selling. And this was, uh, yeah, my, my book on why that is the case and what we can do about it. People still want to talk to people and they still buy from people. People buy from people and think a lot of that sort of got lost in some of the hollow bloom of this great technology in Midley, which we use in sales, but, uh, we saw it too far down this curve of thinking it could.

01:52
replace the human as opposed to helping the human do a better job. Yes, exactly. I mean, cause I don't know. It's funny, Andy. I mean, I, I consider myself a modern marketer and a modern guy and technology and all that, but all the, you know, AI VR, like and all this stuff that is interesting, but like, I don't know. It's like sometimes it's, it's, it's helpful in certain ways. And then in other ways it

02:20
seems to dehumanize certain things and it makes us kind of forget at the end of the day if we think about what impacts us, there's someone on the other end and two robots are doing absolutely everything on the other end of that. We preach all the time like this B to H thing, you know, business to human. Like, it's another human on the other end.

02:49
relating specifically to marketing and sales and technology, but which is that, okay, we have these tools that enable us to send out, you know, mask quantities email and make, you know, easily make more and more calls than we made in the past. It's like, and the lesson being is just because we can do more of these things doesn't mean that we should. And that's, yeah, I think it's a hard lesson people are actually coming to grips with, especially as the economy perhaps slows down here in the next year or two, that

03:18
The idea of more, more, more being the answer to marketing and sales is going to get challenged and it's going to be doing better, not more. That's really the key. Yeah. And hey, I knew I liked you, but you're already using one of my favorite quotes. I mean, like three minutes in, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I have some isms and some quotes. And if my team heard you say that, they'd go, oh, Ryan's going to like this guy.

03:46
I guess that is one of my favorite things. It's one of mine too. And it's you just see the damage that's done from it. And.

03:57
Yeah, it's where we're gonna hit for a lot of companies as times as we get a little bit leaner perhaps the next couple years and it seems like the building consensus on the economists, they'll have some form of economic slowdown with the full recession or even into a stagflation period. Companies have been able to say, look, God, we're just really gotten good at filling the top of the funnel. And we don't have to be that good at sales because we know we're gonna, we're just okay, we'll win a certain percentage of those opportunities.

04:26
they're gonna find that's gonna get challenged in the next couple of years, because it's not gonna be as easy to fill the top of the funnel, and there's gonna be the same number of competitors that exist today competing for a smaller pool of prospects. How are you gonna win? We gotta learn how to actually sell. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. And I see it, it's interesting to hear you frame it that way, is I see the same challenge being, I haven't filled the top, and I think I'm gonna pull them through the bottom.

04:56
without any of the what's needed, the marketing that gets them in the top, awareness, consideration, intent. You know, what I see is, you know, in marketing, there's this battle brewing or it's been brewing for years of performance marketing versus branding. And you know, there's been a push the last five years because again, you want to make sales. I mean, so I'm out of ROI. And as a lifelong marketer, I understand that.

05:26
but you do have to build a connection at the top of the funnel to get the sale at the bottom. A lot of the times, unless you're selling a highly differentiated product that has no competition and others, and what is that these days? I don't know, tell me what it is and I'll buy. Yeah, I know, you tell me, right? And so I have a little bit of this debate with clients sometimes that, you know, I know you wanna make the sale or you wanna make, we've gotta make transactions happen, but.

05:55
Don't they have to be aware of you and consider you and want to do business with you first? Yeah, no, I'm absolutely I mean, in my book, I deal not so much with heavily really transactional business is something a little more complex selling. But it's the same thing at the top of the funnel is as you talk about awareness, interest, intent. And then you start building that connection again, right, you make a certain level of connection from the market and get somebody in the funnel. And then when they actually talk to a salesperson,

06:24
I'll start that again. So you gotta build the connection. You gotta build the trust. You gotta use your curiosity to really understand what's really important to the buyer to help them make a good decision. Yeah. And I love that. So I'm going to tee this up for you, Andy. Um, author of sell without selling four pillars. I liked these. Um, let's talk about them. What are those four key pillars?

06:49
Yeah, so in the book, I set up this contrast between selling out and selling in. So selling out is the way most of us have experienced salespeople at one time or another, which is a salesperson who's purely focused on their own interests, not yours as a buyer, right? The legendary expression is seller with commission breath. They're just there to persuade you to buy their product. And they don't really care what's really important to you because their job is just to persuade you to buy their products.

07:19
On the other hand, I talk about selling in, which is where your job is not to persuade somebody to buy your product, but just to listen to your buyers, really understand what's most important to them in terms of the things they want to accomplish and then help them get that. And so it's, it's a very different approach to the whole business. And it starts with this idea that, yeah, these four pillars of selling in are based on innate human behaviors.

07:46
We want to be connected to people. So it's connection, curiosity, understanding, generosity are the four pillars. We are wired to want to connect with other people. This is who we are as human beings, right? We are wired to be curious from the day we're born and we, you know, pop into the light and we see all these people around us. We're learning, we're using our curiosity to navigate this unfamiliar world that we're in. We continue to use that as we grow up. You know, we're wired to want to understand other people.

08:14
And we're wired to be generous. We're wired to want to give to help others. That makes us feel good to do that. So why right on the book is, is based on, you know, my own experience, experience of many, many, many others and research is, yeah, you really have to master these four attributes, human attributes. That's sort of it in order to really be successful at selling. Yeah. How do you, um,

08:44
I'm going to jump around a bit here because I'm going to come back to that. But I really liked the post that you made on Instagram yesterday. It was about the connection points of all of these things and where there were things that dropped off, like the tactics that you take and how things are connected to other things. How do you, within your kind of your framework, how do you help others kind of know what all those connection points are, what they are or what they aren't?

09:13
Well, I mean, it's the pillars aren't meant to be sequential necessarily, right? I mean, right. One of the things that you see in sales training all the time is like, wow, you've got these, this is your sales process. And it's these linear stages that, you know, the buyer is going to march through with you, which they don't, right? We know from research, partner and Forrester and other analyst firms that, you know, the buying journey is actually this fairly complex.

09:41
nonlinear process that takes place. So the vast majority of sales training says well hey you use your discovery, i.e. your curiosity at this point and then in the sales process then you start put it away and then move on to the next stage it's like no no I mean you need to be discovering and you know continue to deepen your connection and you're understanding the buyer up until the point where they sign right otherwise you're gonna miss something.

10:10
So, yeah, I think back to this diagram that Gartner put out in research, they called their spaghetti diagram with the buyer's journey, because it's really like this really complex flow chart that starts and stops and starts over and so the connection points are all over. But to sort of simplify it is to think about it is the reason we start with connection is that connection is how we earn the trust of our buyer.

10:39
Right. We built some level of rapport. We find some common ground. We can begin to demonstrate our trustworthiness. The purpose of that trust is at that point is not that they'll trust us enough to buy from us. It's that they'll trust us enough to let us stick our noses into their business to really understand the challenges they face and the outcomes they want to achieve. And this is a part the sellers are, you know, skim over it because they think, oh, if I ask a question of a buyer, they have to answer. It's like.

11:09
No, they don't. Right. I mean, it's like, how familiar to be with someone before you trust them enough with information that's important to you, it's proprietary to you. So that trust becomes very important in terms of enabling your curiosity. It's your curiosity, then that gets you to the stage of beginning to really understand support to the buyer, but only if this is really hard part for many sellers is when you ask a question that you listen to truly understand.

11:38
The buyer, you're not listening to respond, but you're listening to understand. And I talked about this in the book, you have various stages of understanding that buyers go through, but that becomes a real source of value for your customers. You're talking about B to H. One of the biggest, again, thing you can help your buyer with is make them feel understood, right? If you make the buyer feel like you understand their challenges and their objectives.

12:03
Gosh, you got a big leg up in terms of ultimately getting their business. And then the last pillar is generosity. It's talk about how do you act in a very intentional way to help the buyer achieve these things that are most important to them. And so it's a very simple framework. You listen, you understand what's most important to them, you help them get that, you increase your odds of winning the business. What's your feeling about...

12:32
today's tactics, whether it's LinkedIn, whether it's email, whether it's calling, I'm sure they all play a role in all four of those in some way, shape or form. But is there any formula in your mind or that you talk about the most within all of the tactics that are there?

12:59
No. So I think that, and this is one of the key themes of the book, is I think that if there are, let's just say, five million salespeople in the United States, there are five million distinct, unique ways to sell that exist. And the goal should be for a manager or a business owner is to say, how can I help this person that's selling, or even myself, I can help myself if I'm doing the selling.

13:28
become the best version of themselves. That's what you want. That may be different than, you know, John would be different than Jennifer, be different than Sally and so on. And that's the goal you're trying to achieve as a sales leader is how can I help people become the best version of themselves. That's not just, hey, very formulaic because the same formula is not gonna work for everybody. Yeah, in my career, I was, you know, you described yourself as sort of the non-salesy person.

13:58
That was me to a T. You know, I was right about in the book is I went to my first sales training class ages ago, my first professional sales job out of college. This is a huge tech company. And I thought to myself, after watching videos of training, you know, sales training is like, what human being acts this way? I mean, what they were what they were teaching was just so foreign to me in the way that I thought in the way that I act in the way that I interacted with people.

14:27
I thought is either going to have the shortest career in sales possible, or I had to find a way to make it work for me. And I think this is the challenge for the vast majority of people in sales is how do I find a way to make this work for me? That's not so technique-laden, you know, sort of this falling into this sort of persuasion manipulative type tactics that that sellers oftentimes fall into. Hmm. Interesting.

14:56
The talk with Andy Paul, host of the Sales Enable at podcast and author of sell without selling out. Andy, like andypaul.com, by the way, if you're listening, we'll hit all these at the end, but I like to give all the plugs midstream. Hey, it's the marketer in me and the sales guy, I guess. I don't know. I don't know if it's marketing or sales, but yeah, I like to be a good host if nothing else. Andy, what's...

15:25
What inspires you today? Where's your source of inspiration? You know, like obviously you've done it a long time, but what formulated this journey for you and this knowledge? Sort of, at one level, it's just continuous learning, right? It's, yeah, I never really set my career goals based on, geez, I want to have this job or make this amount of money.

15:54
I had discovered pretty early on that I was really more motivated by doing something that was interesting and something where I'd learned something new. So I look at my own career and I've got sort of divided into these chapters, right? You know, my first four years of my career, I was selling good size, big computer equipment, you know, roomfuls of computer equipment.

16:16
Yeah, big companies and then sort of I went to work for Apple and pretty early days of Apple and I was doing channel sales. So that was a new challenge for me. You know, I'd never worked with retail distribution and so on. And then got into large enterprise sales, selling satellite communication systems, which was completely brand new to me. Um, but it was the challenge. So, so for me is, and then, you know, later in my career, I started my own company, which I've had for 20 plus years. And then about.

16:46
10 years ago, got the bug to write a book. It's something, again, a new chapter, I thought. Pun intended. I thought, what's that? Pun intended. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it's, suddenly that opened a whole new avenue of things for me in terms of the book was popular and I hadn't really considered the possibility that it could be. And.

17:13
started building a following online, started my podcast back in 2015. You know, 1100 episodes later, we're still, or close to 1100, we're still at it. And it led to a couple more books. So it's just, for me, it's always like, what can I learn new, right? And dive into it in, in a way that, you know, I think helps my clients and helps customers and helps right now in the last 10 years, really just trying to help the sales profession in general.

17:41
What's your perspective on, I'm going to lead the witness. As I like to say, you build the court case, you lead the witness. You're heavy into podcasting. You've invested, whether you call it this, and a lot of people roll their eyes when I say personal branding. But obviously, you've embraced that. What role do you see?

18:09
those types of things that are marketing activities, I would probably argue. I mean, marketing and sales, as much as I do divide the line between them, one feeds the other. How do you coach people on those channels for authority and other ways with which to kind of grow and sell? Yeah, actually it's a growing part of our business.

18:36
work with people on that. Because I think it's so important this idea of personal branding. And I understand why people cringe at it. But here's the reality. If you're in sales and there was a study that came out about a year ago that found that 82 percent of buyers will look at a salesperson's LinkedIn profile before they speak to him first time.

19:02
So at 82%, let's just assume it's 100%, right? Because it's close enough. What are they looking for? Well, they want to see what you have to offer. They want to see who you are. They want to see if you're going to be able to add value to them. They want to see if you have a point of view about anything having to do with the conversation they want to have with you, right? About the industry you serve, the products you sell, whatever. Not to say you have to be an authority as a salesperson, but people want to know.

19:30
Is this person going to be worth my time? I think this is, this is a part that eludes a lot of people, but you have to think about it, especially when you're in your sale, it wasn't just some degree in marketing to us, you're asking for somebody's time. I'm asking, you know, if I'm talking to a potential buyer, I'm asking for their time. And so they're going to invest their time in me. So when people make an investment, what do they want? They want to return on that investment.

19:59
So anytime as a seller that you're talking to perspective buyer, you have to look at from those perspectives. They've just invested some of their time and attention on me. Am I able to give them a return on that? And if not, they're not going to give me any more time. Well, part of their decision making starts with looking at, in case of sales, it's going to be your LinkedIn profile. What's this person care about? What does this person think about? How can they add value to the conversation we're about to have?

20:28
And if you're just a cipher, then that's not going to work in your favor. And increasingly so because increasing percentage of sellers are committing themselves, it's still a small percentage, but are committing themselves to become more so frequent content creators on the platform. And that's, I think it's just essential. And it's starting to, you're starting to see some divide. We do see, at least in our business with.

20:54
those people that have embraced that are beginning to see the benefits of it in terms of just results for themselves, right? Versus those who aren't. So it's, it's just start small platforms out there. Yeah. It could be just going to initially just kind of comment on other people's posts. Great. You don't do that. You know, find out who your buyers, particular buyers are going to be start before you need something from them.

21:23
start commenting. But then what do you care about? You know, you're in this business. What's your opinions on things? Put it out there. So I think it's just really essential. And it doesn't have to be this all consuming thing that many leaders worry about, oh, this person spends too much time on LinkedIn. I would make the argument that within a few years, it may be you spend most of your day on LinkedIn because that's where your prospects are. Yeah.

21:52
So not TikTok yet for your Andy Paul. We're looking at it. All right, good. I was gonna lead you there if you didn't. And there's still a growing number of sort of sales, people in the sales community who are investing in TikTok. Sales talk is what sort of people are calling it. And yeah, we'll probably do some of that for sure. Saw a stat and I talked about it. I spoke at a FedEx e-commerce event.

22:22
50% of US active users are over 30. Yeah. Not surprising at all. Not the teeny bopper platform anymore. Well, no, then there'll be the same dynamic that's happening with Facebook is the kids are gonna start saying, well, just my parents are on TikTok. Well, it's fine if they knew. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it will definitely run the kids off, but it's a fascinating platform. And the one thing that

22:52
I find real about it is we're so ADD now and our attention is so diverted. I do think that's where it's going to be interesting to see. You've seen it impact, you know, Instagram moving to reels. You see, I think the way people cut content and certain things is like, get, get to the point quicker. So it's been, I think it'll be fascinating kind of the impact on, on content and our attention spans as much as I, I hate it.

23:20
I just think we have fleeting attention, don't we? Well, yeah, I think we're training generations to have shorter attention spans. Yeah, I mean, it's been just a few, like even movies and TV shows, the average time between cuts, between perspectives has dropped over the years. I forget what the exact number is, but now it's like the number of cuts is like three times what it was 20 years ago or whatever. So yeah, we need that stimulation apparently. Yeah. I think, I think the,

23:49
maybe the bigger insight here is the reality is these digital natives are getting in leadership positions and making decisions. And you know, that the 20, I don't know where it happens. Sometimes the decision maker could be a 25 year old now. You never know with some of these entrepreneurs, but let's call it 25 to 40, you know, have grown up with digital and social media and these channels.

24:19
Now they're becoming decision makers, pretty large corporations. So, you know, I think, I guess just going where they've, where they are and where they're used to being communicated with maybe. Yeah, well, I think the challenge for a lot of people, especially in sales where we're most familiar with, coming into sales is that, for a lot of the digital natives is just,

24:47
to your point, just grew up differently, right? Different environment. And so when they're thrust into environments, particularly in sales, where they need to build this connection through a synchronous form of communications, like telephone call, that's something they don't have a ton of experience in because they've grown up in an environment that's primarily asynchronous messaging based. And so, yeah, one of our challenges in sales is how do we help teach people

25:17
to be comfortable in this environment where they have to communicate. Not they're abandoning asynchronous messaging at all, but, but in addition to messaging have to learn how to build a rapport with another human being and a sort of face to face, whether it's virtual or in person way that perhaps they're not real comfortable with. Yeah. How do you feel about, you know, I saw this and I kind of chuckled. I mean, it's, it's been a while, I don't know a year or two ago, but like,

25:44
Sales over the phone is dead and nothing. Let's be honest, right? It's kind of like TV's dead. Okay. Well, TV's not dead. It's just changed. Um, but I don't know about that. I have a feeling you don't either. Yeah, no, it's, I mean, anytime anybody says cold calling is dead. Um, yeah. Shows just how false it really is. Right. Yeah. And

26:15
The way we're doing it isn't necessarily great, right? But it's doesn't mean it's dead. I mean, you still have this obligation to reach out and as a seller is be great. It'd be fantastic if every, every opportunity you had was the result of an inbound lead that's fully qualified and you just pick up the phone. You're talking to somebody that's expecting to hear from you. Just doesn't work that way. Right. As, as just not the way of the world. And, you know, that'd be a utopian.

26:44
environment, I wrote about that in my second book, it'd be utopia. If you heard of it for me, it would have been, Oh, all these highly qualified leads inbound, perfect. But in the absence of utopia, we have to do what we have to do. And that involves reaching out to people and yeah, sort of interrupting them in the flow of their day, whether it's a phone or a message or an email. Yeah. How do you, so it's just how we do that is, is, you know, makes the difference. But anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry. Let's I'd love to give and I, and.

27:13
for everybody listening, again, author Andy Paul, sell without selling out. Give, as we kind of close out a bit here, what are some practical, like, let's give some people some real meat here. Obviously reading the book is gonna help lead them completely to the water and maybe drink a little, but what are some practical ways maybe for...

27:40
Cold calling and warming up cold prospect is just difficult, you know, and it seems overwhelming. What are some practical ways, whether calling, whether emailing, whether LinkedIn, what are some practical ways that people can do that? Well, you gotta find what works for you, right? There's some people who are just perfectly comfortable picking up the phone and calling people cold. And...

28:05
And some develop a fair amount of expertise at that. And what they typically do is they tend to lead with questions rather than, Hey, you know, Hey, I pick it. I get you a bad time. The red flag for every, every, every prospect out there is like, yeah, of course you have, um, but they become good at leading with questions and starting conversations that, that are not pitch driven and that's really your.

28:33
goal, right? When you're reaching out as, you know, how can I start a conversation with you that doesn't put you on the defensive? Now, some people say, I want to warm this person up with an email or I'm going to connect with this person. Hey, maybe months in advance, I actually want to reach out to them on LinkedIn. Yeah. I don't want to fall into this trap that people do on LinkedIn. It's like, send a connection request. I'm going to send you a pitch, right? That's nothing more off putting than that.

28:59
But being strategic about how you build your network and your, your territory, let's say quote unquote territory, cause it's not often geographic, but you know, the list of accounts that you're dealing with is are you going to be strategic? Are you going to start building those relationships before you need to call on them? Um, so that when you do reach out, maybe somebody's familiar with your name, you know, they've seen you, uh, the connection requests I've seen, maybe you've commented on some of their posts and they looked at profile and thought, yeah,

29:27
When this person calls, this could be an interesting conversation to have. So.

29:33
Couple of things, yeah, just boiling it down. One is lead with questions, lead with curiosity. How do you make yourself interesting to someone else? Be interested in them, the number one way. So if you wanna sort of command, start commanding someone's attention, be interested in what they're interested in. And best way to start that is ask questions. In my book, I talk about a chapter on curiosity, the curiosity pillars. I have six types of questions you can use that.

30:01
our conversation starters or conversation triggers, let's say, you know, one of them is what I call an insight question. And that is a question you're going to ask a prospective buyer about their business that they reasonably should be expected to know, but possibly don't. And that's a great conversation starter. You know, for me, when I was, when I do still, but was more selling more consulting services than I do now, I was talking with CEOs.

30:31
Yeah, my question usually was something along the lines of, well, tell me, so how many, how many hours of selling time does it take you to take a prospect from initial point of contact to an order?

30:45
Probably a lot of blank stares. A lot of blank stares. But what they get from that question is, oh, I should probably know that. Why is that important? Let's have a conversation. Then you get into the conversation. So it's just one example, and then numerous ones in the book about questions you can use to help people sort of stop and think. And when they stop and think, then they're not going to be as defensive in talking to you than if you just.

31:13
unload a pitch, you know, the show up and throw up approach to sales. Everybody's favorite radio station. W I F M what's in it for me. Yeah. For me. Yeah. Unfortunately, that's the guiding, the guiding philosophy for many sellers is, yeah, what's in it for me as opposed to how can I help you get what's important to you now is this too generic? Uh, Pete, you know, I'm reaching out to somebody. Pete.

31:42
What keeps you up at night with your business? Worst question in the world. No offense, but it's absolutely a question. I'm leading the witness. The usual answer is, well, my kids. My business doesn't keep me up at night. Yeah, unfortunately it's hard to kill that old chestnut.

32:06
Yeah, it's, it's, it's very similar to the crush about, you know, what are your pain points? What is the pain you're feeling? It's like, yeah, same thing. People aren't feeling pain. I mean, they've got challenges. What are the challenges you're facing? How can I help you with that? Um, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, we boil it down the six. I believe the key to success and sales, if there is one or several, but one real key is being intentional.

32:35
Right. Don't be robotic. Don't you've got a script, you've got a playbook. Just don't follow it. Yeah. To the letter of law. What works for you? Why you're talking to a human being and they've got concerns. They've got challenges. They've got aspirations. What are they? Ask. The only way you find out is by asking. Unfortunately, and this is not a ding against marketing, but

32:57
Yeah, marketing does a pretty good job these days saying, look, here's your ICP, your ideal client profile, and you're going to call them to this enterprise account and there's five key stakeholders we need to talk to. Here's the personas for each of those five. Here are the questions you ask here. The answers you should receive when you ask those questions. It's like, sure. You're going to turn a salesperson loose and start to robotically follow the script. And it's like, great, but now what do you really understand about the buyer when you've done that?

33:25
You don't understand a lot. You might have some information, but you don't understand why that information's important. So you have to, it's a develop your own style and be guided by its philosophy. How can I put myself in a position to help this buyer achieve what's most important to them? Do you think, you know, maybe making it topical, like the talk of slow down, talk of recession, and you mentioned this at the beginning, that.

33:52
I would think that's going to change the approach because I would think, especially larger corporations, they're starting to see here and feel that maybe a bit. I mean, is that negative, bringing up negatives, you don't need to do that, don't need to go there or is it like, or is it you're being observational and you understand what they're thinking about? Yeah, I mean, I think you're gonna help the buyer understand that you have a sense of what they're going through and you might even have a way to be able to help them.

34:20
navigate going forward, then that's important to bring up. Andy, I could pick your brain all day. You've been very generous with your time and I know everyone will. Yeah, tell everybody, I've tried to notate it a few times, but let's give everybody, you know, where to keep up with you, where to get the book, all those things. All right, yeah, to keep up with me, LinkedIn is the best place. So I post.

34:48
once or twice a day on LinkedIn. So that's real Andy Paul. This is my profile name. If you want to find that, um, you come down to my website, Andy Paul.com. You can download a free chapter of my book. And if you want to buy the book, then Amazon Barnes and noble anywhere you buy online or in stores, uh, actually real bookstores, you can buy the book. Awesome. Yeah. Listen to my podcast sales and able with Andy Paul sales and ailment, Andy.

35:15
been very gracious and very insightful. I love your approach. It may be a blast to the past and may seem whatever, but I think it's modern to me because I think people need to be more human and there's a lot of truth there. Thank you, Ryan, really appreciate it. Hey guys, you know where to find us, theradcast.com. Search for sales enablement. You'll find every highlight clip from today's episode with Andy Paul. Go to andypaul.com, find out.

35:42
all that AD has going on and orders booked. You know if I'm me, I'm at Ryan Alford on all the platforms. Go follow me on TikTok, blowing up over there. We'll see you next time on the Radcast.