Ryan Alford [00:00:08] Hey, guys, it's Ryan Alford. Welcome to the newest edition of the Radcast. The Radical marketing podcast is now the Radcast 

Robbie [00:00:21] I feel a little bit more “rad” right now. 

Ryan Alford [00:00:23] Hey, you are always Radical. I'm joined by my partner in crime, Robbie Fitzwater, my friend, associate, confidante and all round favorite person 

Robbie [00:00:36] And reason your bad judgment and friends. 

Ryan Alford [00:00:40] Hey, Robbie, good to have you here. And as always and as I mentioned, preshow, today's episode of The Rag is brought to you by monster energy drinks. Unofficially, officially, it's keeping me afloat. I had a little bit of the later night than I planned last night, doing a little work, but excited to be here with you today. 

Robbie [00:01:06] Excited to be here, too, and didn't have his late night, probably you're a little bit cooler than I am sometimes a little bit old. Getting in bed early now is this you 

Ryan Alford [00:01:17] Still got this quasi newborn at home 

Robbie [00:01:20] just to balance the schedules. Lots of very rigid schedules in your transition with a 13 month old now. 

Ryan Alford [00:01:28] So he thought, oh, you're over a year. You're a toddler, I guess. 

Robbie [00:01:31] Right, toddler. And he's walking now and it's taking into our own hands. 

Ryan Alford [00:01:38] We're cool, man. We want to talk a little today. The state of business and marketing here in July of 2020, also known as the Twilight Zone. We talked the impact of both empathy and what we're seeing in e-commerce and just in business, the whole talk, some of the insights and trends. But, man, what a weird year it's been. 

Robbie [00:02:06] I mean, I think 2020 is just absolute punch in the teeth, a little bit of everything. I feel like everybody is just kind of on a rollercoaster waiting for it to end and trying to figure out like maybe it's going to slow down in August, maybe it's going to slow down in September. But right now everybody's kind of thrown for a loop. I think we throw like some of the biggest changes in decades into a few months. And that's our kind of trying to adjust and accommodate for it. And yeah, over one hundred days in, it's been a little bit interesting, I think, for everybody, just kind of trying to find out what the new normal looks like, kind of find like a cruising speed and yeah, finding a blend of where life and the work begins, where, where, where, where the weekend is versus what's during the week. And it's all kind of the same right now. 

Ryan Alford [00:03:02] And I think it's to that point, like we've transitioned to this, I think something like this happens and the market changes and all these snowballs start really advancing downhill. You're still kind of like prepping for. But it's going to go back to normal in another two weeks or like you tell yourself that I think for the first month or in the second month. And now we're three and a half months in and the new normals certainly overplayed. It's now like this is somewhat normal. Like this is the things that have happened in their transpiring in commerce and in business and in marketing and customer service. Things we'll dove into are here. And this is the reality of now. 

Robbie [00:03:55] I mean, it's similar to the first time everybody used an Uber. I feel like you used an Uber the first time and at first it was a little bit intimidating, kind of embracing a new behavior and trying something different because you're getting into a new car, you're getting in with somebody you don't know. But a lot of people tried it, and after the first time, it's a lot easier to do those things and you realize, hey, that's give me a lot of time. Maybe next time I travel in a city, I'm not going to get a rental car. I'm just going to take a few hours. And a lot of the way that we've kind of changed our behavior kind of follows in that same category where we're trying something. We tried new things, some things we may use moving forward, but sometimes some of these things we're probably definitely going to use moving forward because it saves us time. It saves us frustration. And at the end of the day, it's another way for a business or organization to connect in a powerful way that adds value to the customer and kind of is a nice transaction for both parties. And you see, like the, again, grocery store and online delivery right now. I don't know if my wife and I tried it here during started during the pandemic. And it'll be hard to go back at this point just because we're used to purchasing from our phones. We have all of our orders ready to go. And we can have our delivery ready to go within the day. And it just makes it seamless and easy for us. Again, having a 13 month, a 13 month old go home. It also makes it nice not to have to navigate the kind of a treacherous place that is the grocery store. Again, it's kind of a death trap now. But for a 13 month old, again, it could be dangerous for a little man trying to grab everything but trying to navigate that time and energy. It saves us a lot of time and a lot of effort. It's going to change the way we shop, though, because the switching costs are certainly higher, because if we haven't ordered it in the past, it's not on our previous orders. And from a brand perspective, that brand really matters. And it really is important because if you're picking it from you're picking an assortment of products just kind of from your screen, like you would an e-commerce business, that brand that is recognizable in a new environment, it's pretty important. And once you purchase it once, you're going to probably purchase that again because it's easy and it's efficient for you. So I think there's some really super fascinating components just in that area alone that are going to be just exciting to kind of see moving forward. And sorry, I jump into the weeds there, but no,

Ryan Alford [00:06:32] It's good. It's funny when you think about it. Going to the grocery store sucks like I'm sorry, I know there's some men, some women out there that might enjoy that experience, but I think I can speak for the majority and saying you don't really enjoy going spending an hour at the grocery store. If I could sit there and catch up on Game of Thrones or whatever I'm doing and click, how much better is that? I mean like we talked about, pretty absurd. Like these sacred cows, like, well, you're never going to go. We started buying books online, then we start buying other things. I'm never going to buy groceries because I got to see I got to steal that bread. I got to know those grapes are ripe and a sacred cow. We're not going to we're never going to shop for groceries online. But good grief, it made sense 20 years ago. It most certainly makes sense now. And it's that these are the sacred cows that need to be just moved out of the way so that we can really start advancing the ball. And a lot of businesses. And I think that if we have one thing the council business is to be thinking like anything that's been sacred based on in person or some unnecessary system of delivery should be rethought right now. Right. 

Robbie [00:07:56] And we see this happening a lot. I feel like that's happening in a lot of industries right now, too, because you see some people that are taking this kind of opportunity and doing fascinating things with it. Like my wife was trying to purchase some face washer cosmetics and as opposed to having a person kind of set up a booth at a store and have them kind of give her a one on one consultation. She can do it over zoom. And if you had a few people at scale, you could do multiple of those every day. And suddenly you're scaling a one to one interaction and that person can opt in as opposed to passively walking along and seeing it at a mall or at a department store. So it kind of makes this one to one interaction or one to one engagement. Super, super. Again, personal, really unique for that individual. And then it's just that human to human touch point to really maximize that lifetime value because like, we're really kind of yearning for that interaction that we're kind of missing in some ways. But how do they bring that to a digital space? It's not going to be completely the same. But if you can change the direction of your approach to kind of promotion and kind of consultation with an individual product, there's a lot of different things you can do to kind of maximize that lifetime value. And it's going to be really profitable in the long run because they're going to be a lot more passionate advocates for that brand because they know this person who's an expert will help me with it and to help me solve my problem. And I feel like scaling is really kind of cool to see. And where groups normally thought, hey, I need a sales team out in the field doing these things, like they're suddenly saying, hey, why don't we put our sales team on Zoom and hey, when this is all over, we may want to keep them doing this because this is a lot more effective for them, like they're going to sell more. So they look a lot better. And then it's a lot more efficient for customers because you don't have to go to the mall to suddenly get the insight. You've looked for four specific products. 

Ryan Alford [00:09:59] Talk about the evolution of e-commerce, like hearing you talk. I'm thinking of ideas right now. Thinking about an Amazon would make the most sense, but think about any considered purchase or any consultative purchase if on the e-commerce site you're browsing. I know there's chat and stuff like that, but if someone can integrate the pop up like a live person like you and I are right now, like pops up like I'm looking, let's use the makeup example. I'm looking at blush and I'm wondering if it has this chemical that might be bad for my skin or whatever those are. My blush days are past me, but my blessing is when my two year old said something he shouldn't have. It is more about his bowel movements. But in all seriousness. But that's life. You get Poppa's but you're going to see the integration of like a live person pop up right there. There's going to be this demonstration. There's just so much opportunity for, they talk about e-commerce in the future and everything's moving online. But now it's just like turning these dials of how much further can the customer experience, how much it can be improved when you kind of remove yourself from the notion that it has to be in person. 

Robbie [00:11:24] And so much like so much discovery for purchasing used to happen in a store, in a location, like you would find the things that you wanted. Like you didn't know what you wanted. You would go find it, you would find the ones that was kind of the perfect fit for you, but now so much discovery can happen in the digital channel. How do you kind of take what was an in-store experience at one point and bring it to the digital space? And that's where it's really kind of lining up where that high level of empathy around what somebody is looking for, what they need, how to serve them best is really becoming a differentiator for brands that are doing it well and the ones that are kind of leading the pack. And in so many ways and like some of these groups are already doing it and they're just kind of expanding it now, but can learn a lot from some of the more innovative industries around, like cosmetics is doing some really cool stuff and some really fascinating things are happening there. But how do you apply that to other fields and other spaces, too? Because I mean, extra for clothing, that same thing exists. Like you've had a salesperson help you with clothing, like helping a little bit or helping with what to look for, like just going to look good on my skin tone. And suddenly you can do that on over, over, over a zoom call. And there's lots of different verticals this fits into. So finding ways that you can do that. And even if you can't do it live, even positioning yourself like, hey, schedule a consultation with our expert, our feting expert. We'll have time at this time of the day. And it's like a calendar where they just jump into it and kind of go into a conversation. It's super easy for everyone around and it just gives you part of your life back. And it's probably something that people are going to be looking for on a longer term because they want more niche products. They want products that speak better to who they are as individuals and who they're inspired. So they're going to want something that's a little bit more human and a more human experience through a digital channel. So trying to find ways to do that at scale is going to be really kind of interesting to see different people giving it a try. 

Ryan Alford [00:13:29] And I think that kind of leads us into that. The whole notion of the opportunity, importance of customer service. Everything we're kind of talking about is servicing. We're talking probably broadly about both new and existing customers. But it's so funny. Like I was working on large brands back in the day, even then acquisition was always the blinded tunnel like it was always acquisition, acquisition, acquisition, acquisition, 80, 90 percent of the time thought process. You go to the C Suite meetings and you spend 90 minutes on acquisition and 10 percent on CRM or our customer base marketing or whatever. And now looking through the lens of the way with which you service your customers and the opportunity for increased LTV, increased upsells, increased referrals like customer service is becoming as much or more important than any acquisition strategy. 

Robbie [00:14:45] So, again, it's knowing who your customer is and knowing what they need and kind of forecasting how to serve them best, because probably the people that are coming back, I speaking to your point, like the cross-sell, those those customers are going to also be a they're likely going to order more or they're going to purchase more because they've consistently purchased more and more of a basket from your business. And if you serve them well, they're going to continue to do that. So once your cosmetics business can't keep using cosmetics, if you buy mascara, suddenly you buy lipstick, you're probably going to buy both of those very consistent periods of time, too. So your average order value doubles and that lifetime value increases as time goes on. And a lot of ways it's almost looking at this is like how do you how do you. Position your business almost like a subscription model, so thinking about this from like, how do we just keep people coming back in regularly and keeping them and maintain that relationship over time? Super important, because it can come to your point that a customer acquisition is one way to grow a business and nobody and every marketer spent so much time and attention on that, like new customers, new customers, new customers, new customers. But you're not paying an acquisition cost on a second time purchaser. And you're also not like you're not really being forced to do much of it. If you're adding value to the relationship, you're probably going to be driving that lifetime, that average order value up to. So it just naturally makes sense. And that's kind of you see a lot of business is trying to pivot towards that model. Like, how do you get that? That almost like I think that Scott Galloway, the Rundell, like the recurring bundle that people are purchasing. And that's, I mean, such a positive thing to have for business. And again, it's focusing on different things, but lifetime value is probably going to be that metric that's going to be kind of that North Star for so many more businesses now, because you can certainly see it. It has a little bit more transparency and it's a little bit better understood in the organization. But again, customer service, everybody knows about the bad customer service experience they've had, the remarkable ones, the ones that really stand out. You people almost like to tell other people about it because it's so rare that you have a remarkable customer service experience that is a differentiator in so many ways. Like that's the closest touch point to your business as your brand, as a brand, anybody that most people are ever going to get. So making that experience great and seamless is really important. 

Ryan Alford [00:17:12] I don't know that we know yet the true economic impact, that all this has not most certainly you've seen marketing budgets, I think, come down pretty universal. I think some stuff starting to pick back up. And, we've been fortunate being on the digital marketing side of that in the e-commerce side, which has been fortunate. But I'm still stopping short of any prognostications on exactly what the what the. The true economic impact is eight, 10 months from now. I mean, what's your crystal ball showing on that? It's going to be certain there's already been drastic and all of those we can't keep printing money. 

Robbie [00:18:03] But honestly, like, in normal times I would be like, these are the reasons I think this is going to happen. I just like two thousand twenty is such a dumpster fire like this is used to make a prediction like this is absolutely going to be wrong. I think a lot of those, again, kind of that share of wallet where those dollars are going are going to stay in a lot of those channels, I think, because it's gone over there. It takes between like twenty one and 30 days for a new behavior, for a new behavior to become a habit. And I think a lot of these cases where people are trying, again, grocery delivery or a lot of these things, I think they're going to continue on. I also think some of these businesses are going to see, hey, this is an effective channel for us to be using and from a business perspective. So we need to continue this onward. I think I do see some drop from where we're at now in e-commerce sales going down slightly, but it went from like 15 percent to around 30 percent really fast this year. And it goes down to twenty eight or twenty five percent. That's still a 10 percent jump in a year that we weren't really expecting it. 

Ryan Alford [00:19:14] So and it took 20 years for it to get to 15 percent?

Speaker 3 [00:19:17] Yeah. So, again, kind of people that have been kind of ripped off for so many people then trying these new behaviors, trying new things, it gets easier and easier every time. So next time they order online, they're like, OK, this is a Shopify store. I know how to use. They're going to they're going to send me a code to my iPhone for Shopify. And I'm going to use that so I don't have to worry about my credit card information, like lots of ways to make it seamless and easy for them. And they're going to have more confidence doing that. So it's just kind of it'll be up in the air a little bit more. But I think the businesses that are really doubling down on how to make sure that they can create a good experience and a valuable experience are going to be the ones to come out of this, again, stronger and better, because they've really kind of honed their craft and become better for the new world. We're going to be living. It looks like, 

Robbie [00:20:08] Just it seems like as good a time as any like looking at the landscape of e-commerce and changes. And since you use the word Shopify in that last sentence, I'll use it as a bridge. But the Wal-Mart Shopify thing was just announced this week. And I think in any other moment in time that would be like the cannonball into the water. But I think just because of the news cycle and everything else, it's not been quiet, but it's probably quieter than it would have normally been. But that's quite the behemoth of the news and the opportunity for the million plus Shopify small business, small medium businesses to have yet another channel, direct channel with which to market and sell products. It’s pretty big news. 

Robbie [00:21:00] I mean, it's again, I love that they did this and I'm so glad they did it as a partnership as opposed to an acquisition. Yeah, I was convinced, like, I truthfully like Walmart. The natural next step made sense for Shopify. Like it's they've been trying to do this for years, just didn't work out the way they wanted to. They've just never been able to really master the whole e-commerce thing in even acquiring smaller brands like the bonobo's. Those have never been as successful as they wanted them to be once had been acquired by and by Walmart. So this is kind of their opportunity to kind of like distribute those shots. But again, it's a platform that gives those smaller groups. So it's kind of the mom and pop stores and a lot of power and opportunity because they are never going to necessarily out scale Amazon. They can do there. They can serve their niche in their community better than Amazon ever could, because that's the only thing they specialize and they care about it. They focus on it. And for them, it's this kind of like a blank canvas that they can really create a business on that kind of makes the friction of all the things you have to do so much easier to speak. This is like, again, building a Shopify website. How hard is it versus building a website ten years ago or five? 

Ryan Alford [00:22:14] Yeah, it's night day. I mean the things you had to worry about ten years ago, the car experience, the product organization, the integrated it's written is is complicated is all that stuff was the integrations that are now just automatic through shop for the biggest opportunity with Shopify is really just the tech stack that you layer on top of it. And that's why you hire someone like us or another firm or whatever is for the knowledge and understanding of those, the tech stack that you layer on in the person and the the branding of it. But good grief, I mean, now I can't even in my right mind, nine out of ten businesses that would approach us. I would be putting on Chope. And you and I have had this discussion many times, and even when we first started working together, I had my own business because I love shopping, but I was still of that mindset that it wasn't right for certain businesses. But as we're working with a fabric company that's got twenty thousand screws and gladly putting them on Shopify, my mindset has changed with just the power and the flexibility and the integrations that 10 years ago would have taken a dev team of 20 and about two hundred thousand dollars. 

Speaker 3 [00:23:43] A lot of people in the room, in a darkroom coding for days at a time. And then it's going to break and then you're going to have to fix it and readjust. And so much of that. It's like creating a Shopify account, like if you want it to work, it's almost as easy as making your own Facebook page. Like, you have to put like a few things here and there, like fill it in and make sure your payment gateway is OK. Really, it's super simple and you can have one up and a few hours. So it's it takes away all that friction that was there in the past and allows those merchants, those people that are really doing it well to focus on what they do well, as opposed to worrying about all those like nuts and bolts of running it back end of a website like you just gotta keep keep your business running and humming. And it's going to be inefficient. It's going to be inefficient business because they have to focus on either the marketing or the business as opposed to focusing on all the technical sides of the website. So it's a platform like Amazon. It kind of distributes a lot of the power across the network. And as more and more people see how it's done and see how easy it is, we're going to see more and more groups jumping onto it. I think Heinz Ketchup was made a Shopify account the other day, like you never would imagine a CPG business jumping on Shopify, but it's so easy and suddenly they can sell direct to consumers. And guess what? When you sell someone Amazon, like it's it's that that's Amazon's customer. Suddenly when it's your customer and you can bring them back in and that LTV can increase and increase. So for so many businesses, it makes so much logical sense and it's getting easier and easier as the barriers go down. And then we're not reinventing the wheel every time either, because like you said, like the tech savvy, somebody figured out shipping with Shopify. So again, I know like somebody figured out email shopping and not just simple, easy things you can do to make your process seamless and hopefully, again, automate as much of that as much of the work. You're not going to be a skill that and really do good work. 

Ryan Alford [00:25:47] Yeah. And now you hit three buttons and suddenly your ten to two thousand and how many ever price you have can go straight to Amazon and straight to Walmart and all of that go there sinking automatically and two of the largest marketplaces in the world. And it's two button clicks away. And so it's just unbelievable. 

Robbie [00:26:13] It makes it really easy. And it's that's that's a game changer that it is kind of that represents in so many ways. And then I know Cavafy fulfillments trying to come online soon. So they want to have like, hey, if you can't warehouse it, you can't fill it. Like, that's a big problem for a lot of groups like warehousing and fulfillment. It's more of a headache and seen a lot of people expect it to be. But if Shopify is doing that for you again at a percentage, naturally, but if they're able to do that for you, that's another piece you don't have to worry about. So, again, you can almost be product focused and product and customer focused. And you don't have to worry about the warehousing. You don't have to worry about the fulfillment because they can handle it for you. And it's it's just opportunities that they're opening up for for those the smaller retailers and smaller shops that are really exciting to see kind of moving forward, because that's where the real magic in our economy is going to happen its because Amazon is going to grow. Amazon is going to continue to grow, but people are going to want more and more niche products because they really want to jump on board with the story of the business that makes it like you care passionately about some a few things. Like the commodities they can buy on Amazon. The small, again, really thoughtful niche products can be bought on Shopify. 

Robbie [00:27:27] Exactly, what else are you seeing out there that, fills news and where the. I think we talked a little bit pre episode, I thought it was pretty interesting, the whole how connected marketing is now to the entire, business. There was this: you've got sales and marketing and customer service and operations and all this. And now it just feels like marketing has nuts saying this, say their hands, but definitely just feels at the table and all of those. 

Robbie  [00:28:15] It’s a reality kind of right now. And I think, like I think I mentioned it too, I think the CMO is a more likely role as a CEO as the next step. And there ever was in the past, because you have so many hands and so many cookie jars across the organization, like if you blend together marketing with PR and then I.T. and PR it and then customer service, that's basically what marketing entails right now. It's like every different customer touch point in so many cases because you have to understand what the customer needs, what the customer wants and how they think and feel and when finding a way to kind of tie all those together. And really the stimulus package is going to be kind of like a differentiator for so many businesses. So the marketer has to wear so many different hats, but they have to be kind of customer obsessed in so many ways because they're touching that customer in so many different places and finding ways to position the company like you hear feedback from from customers who haven't been happy with with something or whatever, that's an opportunity for them to grow and change. And it's kind of more magnified in this space, because if you're on a digital computer, if you're in the digital space, the operations completely change. And that storefront is suddenly your website or your app. And that's where so much of this interaction is happening. And again, letting those things up really smoothly and seamlessly, it's going to be a differentiator moving forward. 

Ryan Alford [00:29:44] So it’s interesting how it is a certain time and place you had a product. Or service. And you had packaging and you had marketing and I had worked on Verizon for a number of years, we had different cell phones coming out and it was Droid and this and that. And there's like the catchy campaign that was about that. And it's not that there's not room for that anymore. There's still room for that. But now, as a marketer, consumers want so much and deserve so much transparency in every single facet of where did you get the components of that thing? How is it made? Who was who was working on it? What's the makeup of your company? What's it's not just catch me with a gimmicky product and when my heart, mind and soul. Now there's just like this and I don't know if it's so brought on or if it's reality that consumers really want to know. But you have to like the luggage of the marketer you went from. I just had this carry on bag and now I've got the carry on bag, the two week luggage and everything else to kind of go with me. And how I tell those messages, though, 

Robbie [00:31:02] yeah, I have to actually understand I had a message and supply chain transparency and not having messaging. That's not going to resonate. And I have to understand how a tech stack works, too. And just all of these finite things, it becomes really daunting really fast. And again, probably again, there's opportunity for burn out there, but it's kind of becoming that, again, more and more important role. And for a lot of organizations, it's hard because it doesn't have the weight it deserves in so many cases. Like, again, as a marketer, I feel passionately and strongly about this, but it's really hard to do all of those things at the same time. And in so many cases, like you need a lot of people to either delegate and get those off their plate or need more resources for the marketing, for the marketing organization or giving more power to the marketing marketing piece of the organization to to make those decisions. And have I again, you're going to hear it before the products, before the product, the shift, after it's shipped, what their experience is like. And again, a lot more transparency because nobody buys anything without reviews anymore, like you go to the grocery store anymore. So I want to keep on Amazon when I'm at the grocery store again back in the old days, like one hundred days ago. But don't you need that? That's a kind of table stakes that people use now. Like, you don't make decisions without a review, so you need that social proof. And again, that whole experience ties back into how you make a seamless journey for everyone and give them what they need along that path now. 

Ryan Alford [00:32:34] These are interesting times, my friend, but always good to catch up, and I think it's. The case studies that are going to come out like this year will be fascinating. 

Robbie [00:32:52] It's going to be yeah, I definitely think so. I think this will be one of the times that we just look back and like, wow, that all happened. Like that was all 2020 and 19 was crazy enough. Like twenty. Everybody is just hoping for a very nice slow down right now. Like we were just trying to figure out a way to make it a little bit slower, make a little more calm. Exciting things going on. What's been the coolest project you have on the hopper right now. 

Robbie [00:33:23] We, I mentioned the fabric company. There's a company that we're working with that's been in business for 30 or 40 years, if not longer. I think it's three generations. I'm probably shortchanging them 10 or 20 years, but a long time. And they're moving to e-commerce. They just have price and selection that will really immediately put them in a national leadership position with their e-commerce presence. And it's fascinating taking something that's just been offline and 100 percent. A lot of times companies come to us and it's like improving a digital experience or improving e-commerce, but taking a historically always offline business that has the volume of opportunity that they have is fascinating and interesting, scary and great at the same time. So, they're leaning on us heavily and we're there to kind of and that's both a responsibility, but also exciting because when you can help someone and it doesn't mean we get everything right or that, but generally speaking, we know doing and and so it's it's fun watching that all come together and building that kind of from the ground up. 

Robbie [00:34:55] I mean, that is a tall order, especially a large organization, no digital presence, and suddenly becoming an online brand. 

Ryan Alford [00:35:03] No pressure. We accept it gladly. We'll cool, man. It's been good. I love catching up with you. Look forward to the next one. And I hope everyone has a great fourth, including yourself and that closet. Now I have our bedroom. 

Robbie [00:35:24] This is yeah. I guess better in this kind of studio now. 

Ryan Alford [00:35:28] Kind of the studio.. 

Robbie [00:35:30] Whatever, whatever our house is like, everybody's like on a spaceship right now. You're spending your whole life in one space. Have a good fourth. Have some good time with the fam. You'll probably get on a lake I'm guessing. 

Ryan Alford [00:35:44] Oh yeah. We'll be on the boat but cool man. Well, that's all for today's episode of the Radical Marketing podcast, now known as Radcast. And I appreciate Robbie Fitzwater coming on. Go follow Robbie on LinkedIn. Great insight, great takes. And we'll look forward to having him on soon. And we'll see you next time.