00:06
listening to the Radcast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast. I am joined for a special edition, I might say. Four yeses and one. Four and one here on the Radcast. We're bringing all the heat today. You know, it's Super Bowl time, Super Bowl just passed and we thought no.

00:33
better time to kind of talk about the impact of the Super Bowl and specifically the impact of neuro in marketing. We're going to get brainy today specifically. I'm joined by Tyler Lewis, uh, here. He was the director of client solutions. Am I getting it right, Tyler? I'm going to really think through that here on a Monday, the Monday after the Superbowl. And it's a, it's basically a blanketed term for, uh,

01:01
arbiter of everything. Yes. Well, I can appreciate those running a company. I don't ever know. I kid. Uh, I also joined by Mike Weston, our creative director and Mr. Josh Hill, our, uh, digital marketing manager guru. Extraordinaire. The guy. Yeah. Add guy, digital media guy. But, uh, yeah, I joke all the time. Uh, we struggle with titles as well because, you know, how many hats do I need you to wear?

01:30
Exactly, there's not enough titles. Appropriate there, but Neuro Insight company, you know, Tyler let's start there. Like I want, let's explain a little bit about what you do, what Neuro Insight does. Let's knock that out because I think it's cool. It's really interesting what you guys are doing. Let's start there and then we can kind of get into some of it on the Super Bowl. 100% appreciate that. No, so Neuro Insight is a company that specializes in the art of.

01:58
applying neuroscience to understanding how people respond to creative or content. And the entire crux of what we do is based off of the fact that whenever we watch something or interact with anything, there's two different types of processing that happens of content, right?

02:17
you have explicit processing of things that you can actually like talk to or respond to being potentially like, you know, what do you remember this? Do you like this? Do you like that? Or do you dislike something? And then there's implicit processing, which is which happens in the subconscious. And the subconscious is makes up 90% of our human brain processing. And

02:43
it dictates how we respond to things or how we act on things later on. So we're able to look at how the brain is actually responding to things in real time to understand whether or not we're able to communicate effectively the messages that we're trying to communicate to people. And naturally, people will remember things that are memorable or that are emotionally engaging.

03:09
but it's important for us to use neuro-based methodologies to understand how people are actually responding to content. So our company measures literally brain response with these head caps of how people's brains are responding to content in real time, instead of asking people questions on the backend. This is the future. Coming up through marketing, it was like.

03:36
this is what you know, I can like see it like in a, here's what we might do one day, you know, like you see flying cars and like in other things. It's like one day we're gonna be able to put something on your head and know how you're thinking about it. Like this is it, isn't it? Yep, absolutely. I remember I kind of miss qualitative focus groups cause you know.

03:55
snacks were really good. And Nielsen buttons, what happened to Nielsen buttons? Can people eat while they have their brain pad on? Their brain cap? Qualitative focus groups are very entertaining, but understanding how people are truly processing information is what we're specializing in. Especially again, because we're going to get a lot of responses of people telling you in a qualitative focus group,

04:25
you want to hear in a focus group or Understanding of like, you know what they think they want to know but at the same time the subconscious is So much deeper in in driving our future action, which is why we exist as a company

04:43
Well, if you ask anyone, does advertising work on you? They all say no. Those ads don't work on me, but I did like that commercial. Yeah. That's usually what you hear. Josh, what's your perspective on, on all this? Oh man. Ads work on me. I would, uh, there was a time I definitely was like, absolutely not. But now I'm like working in it in the space. I'm like using the algorithm and stuff. And now I'm like, you know, I'm going to purposely like trigger my algorithms to show me things.

05:13
things. I was like, I want it to work on me. So as we transition, we wanted to bring Tyler on because we're going to have a follow-up. This is a two-part episode. Tyler's team is analyzing a lot of the Super Bowl ads and the ones that supposedly ranked high. We're going to find out if they really rank high on our follow-up episode next week. So one and two, but I do want to just

05:42
The big game. I don't think we're gonna get marked by the Super Bowl We're on a joke pre-episode like can we talk about the Super Bowl? They know and like the trademark or whatever I think this is a non paid Podcast so I think we're good so we can say Super Bowl. We can say Super Bowl Was what I called my bowl of guacamole Yes, yes, yes, but what was everybody's I'll start with you Tyler, I mean, what was your impression of uh, oh hey look

06:12
talk about wherever the hell we want like both the game itself and the ads

06:21
I'm very biased in this response, but I was very happy that Tom Brady was able to pull off what he did at the age of 43. It was a fairly boring game overall. I think the game was done after the first half, but overall I was very pumped to see that Tom Brady was able to pull it off. Being from Michigan, I have a lot of strong ties to Tom Brady and the University of Michigan in general. I was very happy.

06:51
to see and witness greatness live. You know what I mean? Like this is something that we will never see again in our lifetime. So from a game perspective, great. From an advertising perspective, I think people were trying too, and trying too hard to be safe. You know what I mean? I think that safety was replicated in the number of celebrities that we saw in the advertisements.

07:18
and the amount of slapstick comedy that was also presented. Because I think we've gotten to a point, especially comparing it to past Super Bowls, we've gotten to a point where everyone is trying to play it very, very safe, brands are trying to play it very safe. That's the reason why we haven't seen the amount of Super Bowl ads being bought as quickly as they used to in the past years. For example, last year, the Super Bowl was sold out in November.

07:47
CBS didn't sell out their Super Bowl ads until the week before the Super Bowl. So brands are playing it very, very, very, very safe and they didn't take as many risks as they used to. And that being in.

08:02
taking social stances or taking stances in general on their own brand ideology. People were just trying to make jokes and be entertaining. Yeah, Mike, what do you think? I wonder how much of that, I agree. Absolutely, I think it was one of the lamest years in a long time. But I gotta say, I gotta ask all of us, how much of that had to do with this 2020, this crap hole of a year that we just came out of? Sure. Right? And I thought one of the best spots

08:32
of that, the Bud Light seltzer. Lemons. When life deals you lemons, you make lemonade. Brilliant. Absolutely. I love that. But I think a lot of what we saw is a result of the year that we just came out of. Yeah. And continues, frankly. But yeah. How'd you feel overall or? I mean, the game was kind of boring. I kind of zoned out of the football game that like again, after halftime, I was like, yeah, this game's over. The boy Patrick's not having

09:02
His line couldn't defend against a group of senior citizens. Definitely not. It was horrible. The whole game. You scrambled everything. I think all four of us could have gotten through that line. Yeah, I think so. They were pathetic. I will say watching Patrick, I mean, he was like horizontal, you know, full body. He threw the ball 40 yards. I mean, and the guy dropped it. I was like, how do you get?

09:32
from that angle. His face after that was very telling. And Patrick's like, he's the nicest guy. And that was the most eat shit look you'll ever see out of him. Like, what the hell? Feel for the guy, man. He was trying to do it all on his own.

09:50
Yeah, but like ads wise, I mean, I was not surprised by like the amount of like nostalgia, but maybe I guess the extent of the nostalgia push was like a little surprising. And it just seemed everyone's kind of trying to do the whole like grab celebs with built in audiences. So I was surprised by the amount of social media influencers are like celebs. I think culturally, we're finally like recognizing YouTubers and like TikTokers and stuff as like actual celebrities in the like TV world, which is

10:20
like a lot of times a YouTuber is gonna be far more like popular than a like a TV actor or movie actor or stuff like that. So that was that was interesting from my perspective because a lot of them kind of had follow-up like social media tactics of like they gave David they gave David Dobrik the like

10:38
Mountain Dew car, so that was kind of fun. But it felt like everyone was just kind of phoning it in at the same time of like, yeah, remember when things were good back in the day of these old ads? It's like, we're not gonna make any new ones. We're not gonna do anything to make things new or exciting or innovative, but let's just get some memories. Yeah, I thought it was meh overall. We talked a little pre-episode about that. But I just, it felt safe. It felt like no one really knew

11:09
what tone to take. So to Tyler's point, they defaulted to humor, which is never a bad place. We all want to be entertained, which is good. But it felt, it just felt flat. There were highlights and we'll get into some of our favorites here shortly, but it just felt flat for me. And I don't know if it was a combination of the games and the ads, but I just, it did make me wonder.

11:34
about the strategies of where you fall. And I guess you, I don't know how much you can dictate. I know you can choose quarters and things like that, but depending on the spot that you became before or after, I think can sometimes dictate your success because I found myself like when a really shitty ad would run, like one that I wasn't interested in, I kind of tuned out.

11:57
And then I halfway didn't pay attention to one that was actually pretty good. The next one, then, you know, I'd start, okay, catch my attention. I don't know if there's any, my brain would probably tell you something Tyler. I don't know. Absolutely. No, well, a hundred percent. Well, that's something we've done a lot of research on too, is coming from the perspective of understanding.

12:16
Context. Context is so important in how people respond to things. Because there's flow, right? If I show you the same advertisement on Facebook versus TV, you're going to have a very different response to it, right? And the same thing applies to an emotional game like the Super Bowl.

12:33
where you have various ebbs and flows, and some advertisers are gonna be lucky enough to be behind some big play or touchdown that's going to impact their brand in a certain way. Whereas if the game gets boring, people are going to tune out and have a very different response. And this is all dictated by what is influencing how we're responding to things in real time. It's almost like, you asked me about neuroscience on a beach.

13:01
versus neuroscience like in this context, we're gonna have very different responses to it. Like if we're on the beach, you're gonna be like, what the fuck, why do you wanna talk to me? I don't need you around. But if we're in this context, you're like more engaged, right? So, you know, that has a massive impact on how people are responding as well. And I think the fact that the game was out of hand by the time we got to halfway through the second quarter.

13:28
everybody else who had spent five and a half million dollars on their advertisements beyond the second quarter were screwed over. Yeah. Yeah. But that's always been true too. You know, I think about, you know, one of my favorite ads and I'm incredibly biased because I'm a huge Springsteen fan was, you know, the spot, the spot that, you know, he was in for Jeep and it came in the fourth quarter.

13:56
after a really lousy game and I was thinking how many people are going to react to this because they didn't see it. At that point they'd lost interest in the game and they'd moved on. Well I saw where they did the top five searched and the g-pad I think was two or three in searches but I think it's because nobody saw it because they weren't watching the game at that point. And it was Springsteen. Yeah with that too and my only issue it felt contrived to me like I was like at the time like it was like

14:26
Trying to to make a point to make a point or something trying to be somewhat In the throes of understanding how people feel and wanting to bring people together I don't know it just it felt came contrived to me I don't know take because I'd make was said it like it just kind of rang hollow Yeah in a weird way like it was so deep

14:47
It was hollow, or trying to be deep. They're looking at the fulfillments like, oh, I guess someone needs to do a come together ad. I guess we'll do that one. Well, it's interesting because Donor wrote that spot. And the head of Jeep marketing had been trying to sell, he's a huge Springsteen fan, I guess, to John Landau, Springsteen's producer, for a long time.

15:13
Bruce finally bid on it and loved it. And it was really well written. It was a smart idea. The middle of the country. But yeah, you're right. It's the Super Bowl. It's commercials. I got as much as I adore and worship Bruce Springsteen. It was kind of disingenuous. Yeah. You know? They didn't overtly try and sell Jeep and they did sign off the reunited states of America, but it was a Jeep spot. Yeah. Right.

15:41
And I don't mind seriousness. You know, I don't mind. Like my favorite spot last year was the Google spot doing Google assistant and the old man giving himself the reminders. Loretta. That's my, that's what, that was the best ad, but like a, like a million miles last year and it wasn't funny, but it was so, I mean, I was like crying in my seat, I'm in the middle of the, like, if you can move that emotion in me, when I'm watching a football game, I'm munching on nachos, I got bbq sauce all over my face.

16:10
I've laughed through four other commercials, and then I'm tearing up in 30 seconds, you've done your job. Yeah. The one spot that came close, I thought, but I think it got caught up. Toyota? Yes. Absolutely. Toyota, yeah. Absolutely. That was nice. I have to confess, though, I saw the preview of it last week. Oh, yeah. I thought it was a wonderful story. The art direction was wonderful.

16:33
But I wonder how many people it was really lost on. Right. You know, well, I think Toyota did a good job. But they were able to solidify that spot early in the game before it got on again. And this was a very unique Super Bowl, too, because.

16:49
not only do we have the situation where, you know, um, we have unique times that people are going to talk about within their advertising. This is the first super, when we're talking about context, this is the first Superbowl where a lot of people can't get together like they used to. Right. Back in the day, when we were consulting on Superbowl ads, it was all about like, look, you gotta tell a visual story. You gotta tell something that doesn't require audio because

17:17
90% of the time people are going to be at a party, probably drinking and probably, you know, just with a bunch of friends and you're, you're, you're going to be drowned out. This is the first time that attention was very important. And I think the Superbowl advertising in this context actually failed at taking advantage of that opportunity to have people's attention because you can actually like take a message and run with it.

17:42
I think the best version of that was some of the social stuff that happened on the side. And I think that was the coolest part of the Super Bowl that I want to talk about as well. Not the ads themselves, not the five and a half million dollars that say Anheuser-Busch would pay for a 30 second spot, but it's the social networking that the Twitter ads that were released during this time that people were retweeting and talking about because people had more time.

18:12
to go on Twitter. Yeah. A lot more time to go on social. And those were the things that were trending on Twitter last night was the things that were social based things that people weren't, uh, weren't served during the super bowl itself. Yep. And that's a great point about attention because with COVID you still didn't see that fewer problems. Sure. There are some idiots out there like on top of each other, but most, most reasonable people were, uh, you know, at

18:39
smaller gatherings or home. Right. And like me, I mean, even I'm in the ad business and I'm normally paying way more attention probably to the commercials than the average person beyond just the humor of it or whatever the interest level would be. I definitely was in a more, because I wasn't at a party, I wasn't like, I was definitely, it's a great insight. And I think it even makes me actually think they failed more, I don't know. Like they had a moment in time that.

19:08
To do something bold, you know, and I don't even, that's where I thought like the Jeep was like trying to be bold. Like it was just like trying too hard or something. Like that was what it was. But yeah, missed opportunities. But I know, I know Josh, you picked up on some of the social stuff. Yeah. I mean, I was, I mean, as soon as the game was getting boring, I was spending, I was watching the commercials, but during the game, I was scrolling through TikTok and I saw Tide had, um, a bunch of kind of like 200 to like.

19:37
two million follower channels on TikTok. They made their own hoodie with their own face on it and they were getting that dirty and talking about it. I think they had probably 10 or 15 different influencers use that and I saw David Dobrik had the Mountain Dew car he gave away to one of his buddies and that's a guaranteed five million extra impressions right there and then people are gonna be sharing that too. I think it's the extensions and then the Instagram ads

20:07
clips of the ads that you recognize it when you see it on the TV. I think just helps reinforce, but it's definitely interesting. Well, I mean, if you look at it. So this morning in preparation to was just looking at some of the winners of the Super Bowl and the winners of the Super Bowl were not people who paid money to advertise in the Super Bowl. The winners of the Super Bowl were people who ran social campaigns, you know, or didn't even like.

20:37
very, very legacy Super Bowl advertisers who decided not to advertise and just focused on social like Budweiser, had a more of an impact on people's mindset about their brand than the advertisers themselves. Yep. Totally. Well, when an ad's not an ad. Yeah. You know? Right, exactly. I've seen that before of people who, I mean, they did it as commercials too, but like when they went around the Super Bowl, but didn't actually like the...

21:07
the old spice like, look at your man, now look at you. Like, now look back at your man. Like that was not a Super Bowl ad, it ran before Super Bowl and it ran after. But a lot of people remember it as that, because it was there and then Instagram and YouTube was really heavy with them too. I think capturing that like, capturing that second screen of like what's in your hand during the commercials or during the boring parts of the game, like again, if you're at a party or if you're home alone, like you're gonna be on your phone.

21:34
way more often either way. What'd you think, what'd everybody think of the Reddit execution, the five second ad? It was, I think it was, so I think it was great. I think they did a really good job of disrupting because we're sitting here talking about it right now. That means it had a pretty awesome impact. And the timing was perfect too. And when we're talking about timing and Reddit in general, how about the Robin Hood ad? Yeah.

22:04
Right. Which was, which the Robin hood ad was the second to last on the ad meter. Right. You know, given, given the recent context of what Robin hood has influenced with GameStop, right. Um, what do we think about that? I thought they either, I liked that they stayed in, in a way, but I hope that they were going to not be tone deaf and they were, cause they didn't change it. I think that was the spot they were going to run.

22:30
two months ago, it was in the can, and I would have done something more organic. I would have either apologized or like, you know, like, I don't know.

22:42
But you can't fucking call yourself Robin Hood and be blocking the family. It's like the complete antithesis of what you've positioned yourself. Right. Yeah, we trickle down trading. And instead of just hoping that maybe not enough people know about you and running a general awareness brand spot about how you're Robin Hood is just bullshit. Yeah, they were tone deaf. I think one of the issues too is Robin Hood would have had to screen lock that pre-

23:12
the issue that we ran into. So they would have had a screen lock that with CBS last week. So one of the things that we're seeing too is like, they probably had this ad bought already, then found themselves in a bullshit. And just like reacted in the best way possible, but at the same time, their reaction was not as positive as they could. You know what, honestly,

23:41
not to belabor Springsteen and Jeep, but they just shot that spot last week. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Robin Hood had turned around, done something really, really simple. Yeah. Very short period of time. Yeah. Get, I would have you may need to make a gesture or do something and, and just to put your head in the sand and act like it didn't happen, you know, which is as soon as they did. We live in a day and age where, you know, and I've built an agency around it about this notion of real time, the ability to impact and

24:10
You know, the fact that, and in TV now, like you said, the Jeep, they recorded, they did it last week. Like, that capability is here. Like, you can do these things and turn these things around and leverage the insights, because this is what's happening, is we now have the power to act upon these things that are happening so quickly, and to just not take advantage of that just felt like a complete lost opportunity.

24:39
Well, I think that's a good point, Ryan. When we talk about just reactivity and ability to react on these things in general, it's like I don't want to make it way too massive about TV as a dying breed. And you guys do a really good job of taking advantage of social and taking advantage of being really incredible social marketers on Instagram, on TikTok, et cetera, et cetera.

25:07
As you think about TV and how we advertise on TV, one, we're losing viewership. Two, you lose reactivity. On social, you can react immediately, right? And something that happens within the week that you have to be in the Super Bowl is going to make a massive impact on how people respond to you. And the example of this is Robin Hood in general. They had to lock their ad last week.

25:36
Had a very poor response to it. Whereas on social you can be very more dynamic in the way you ever I even take advantage of the times because we're in a we're in a point in time where we're adapting every single day to the news that we see and You know we start to think about and this is one thing too that we have to address is is the Super Bowl even worth it Anymore, you know what I mean? Like we may have reach but do we have actual

26:05
effectiveness and do we, do we actually see ROI on this? Yeah, I think, uh, my, uh, I, I did an early Josh and I did an episode and I effectively called mass marketing dead. So, uh, I think everyone, everyone that listens to Radcast, no, I stand on this. Uh, you know, but no, it's like, but that's what.

26:31
Again, the reach is incredible and the awareness you can get. I still think there's value. I don't know if the ROI pays off, but you know, you get 10 billion people. I mean, I don't know what the numbers exactly are. Yeah. So last night I saw projections of 148 million last year was 98.4 million. So, yeah, I mean, you get, you get that, you get that reach, but again, you know, but you got to use it. I think it's still right. I think it just goes back more to the execution. Like it's like.

26:59
It's not enough to just have that reach and throw something up there safer. Otherwise, like, and I mean, as much as I hate it, and I'm sure everyone did, but the Oatley thing with the, the, the guy singing, which I think was stupid and bad on purpose, you know, but like it, I at least respected it for trying to do something different, you know, in its own way, as much as I hated it, I hated it. I was about to bring that up, but it's like, it's like finally someone.

27:28
It was so refreshing because finally someone is being like, yeah, we're not going to be for everyone. It's sort of like my favorite liquid death water company. They sell water and they call themselves liquid death and it's got a skull on the can. And it's just like, yeah, they're not trying to appeal to everyone. And it's like, yes, finally. I respected that more than the Jeep spot. Yeah. So what does that tell you? I mean, you're a Republican. Right. Well, you're a Republican.

27:54
I mean, the only ad too was just such a, I mean, that was also one of the worst rated ads and I think, I think when we think about it, it's like, why was that? Like, but also is being bad also kind of okay for your brand? Yeah. I mean, we're talking about it. Exactly. A hundred percent. I mean, if we go back to some of the work that we've done with Pepsi, I know, I know that, uh, you know, for example, we tested the Kendall Jenner ad after.

28:24
they had the big blow up. But one of the things is that, or if we think about the politics as well, it's like, is negative publicity bad publicity or is it just publicity? Because the things that we're not gonna talk about are the things that are going to be ranked between number five and number 45 in the ad meter. Things we're gonna talk about are ranked 65 and below or one through five, right?

28:53
And, you know, I think, you know, only being one of them is like, maybe was it so bad that it was good and was it a creative, like, was it actually maybe more effective because it was bad is the thing that I'm looking forward to looking into next week. I I'm looking forward to it too. And if I was a betting man, I bet you it tests a neurally where well, if that's, if I'm phrasing that correctly, Tyler, my brain analytics.

29:23
I mean, you're going to notice I would I'd be noticing the the bottles in the store like way sooner now. Like, oh yeah, you're going to see it. Like I think it elevated their brand awareness and it was terrible. But I think that I think they were I think it was brilliant. I think they knew exactly they knew it was bad. Part of me when I first saw it, I was like, oh God, this guy was the CEO and wanted to be in his own spot. And then I watched it a little longer and I'm like, they know exactly what they're doing right here. They know it's bad, but they want it to be bad.

29:52
I know with the little super spreader I was at, everyone kind of stopped and... What the... But there was silence finally. It ended. It ended as like... Which I think that's my favorite kind of humor is like yeah there's the self-aware like Wayne's World humor or whatever but like I feel like the true humor is where people are like...

30:19
what is happening right now. But maybe my brain's broken. Can you scan that, Tyler? Is that a thing we can? We can save you the time and money. It is broken. But I think one thing to kind of address, there's a couple things, but the one thing to address first and foremost, rocket mortgage for the first time was able to get one and two on the ad meter, which is incredibly, you've never seen that on the ad meter. And this is how brands think about the Super Bowl as well.

30:49
the clients we've worked with they want to win the ad meter and the ad meter is like such a forgive my language bullshit like understanding of how things like how people respond to things it's just like do you like it or do you not like it at the end of the day people are not gonna remember rocket mortgage

31:10
Tracy Morgan is going to get most of the, you know, like at traffic on this. Like he's the, yeah, exactly. Like he's the one who's getting followers today. Rocket mortgage is not getting anybody new who's going to like get rocket mortgage today, you know? So, so yeah. What I heard, talking about one and two on the ad meter. So I was watching one of the news shows this morning.

31:35
full disclosure, I do watch television. And they're talking about how they were using Rocket Mortgage, effectively used other influencers, other people that are Rocket Mortgage influencers, Ricky Fowler, to encourage all their millions of followers to go to AdMeter and vote for the Tracy Morgan ads. The response. Right. Sure. Exactly. And it worked. And that's another game in the system. And that's how people are also going to utilize this as a win for

32:05
them. But again, that's, that's what comes back to what we do is like, at the end of the day, if we're using influencers to vote for something, if we're using celebrities to actually like, you know, try to communicate some sort of some sort of like, emotional, like, you know, response, this celebrity is going to be the person who actually drives impact what we what we can do as a neuroscience company understanding how people respond to information is

32:34
If you don't communicate your brand, then you're completely screwed. Right. Yep. Exactly. You've got the moment in time there. Like just making something that's funny and throwing your logo at the end. I just don't think you're getting it done. Right. Absolutely. And I think that was what we saw and what we consistently see in Superbowl creative.

33:03
is the inability to integrate a brand into your advertising to make your brand affable and relatable. You know what I mean? I think one of the best examples of this that I've seen in my work is last year there was a Colgate ad with Luke Wilson and he was talking about how he had really bad breath and that was the whole joke.

33:30
But what people do is they try to create a story. They try to create a film in 30 to 60 seconds and then throw their brand at the end. But at that point, people are already turned off. People are already like, okay, I got the story, I'm done. But I gotta take issue with that for just a moment. And granted, I've been in this business a long, long time and I've had to forget everything I knew over the last 25 years just to immerse myself in digital.

33:59
but I still think people want to be entertained.

34:02
want to be sucked in. And that's, I always, I was taught and I believe that you need to entertain people or inform people, draw them in, suck them in. I think that Colgate's spot was brilliant because I watched it all the way to the bloody end because it was interesting, it was fun, it was entertaining and rules and YouTube about you've got to get your name in there in the first five seconds and blah, I think that's the way to turn people off. Right, no, I agree with you 100%. So there's two things there.

34:32
and coming from our perspective as well, is I hear this all the time too, because a lot of the insights that we deliver as a company is how do we optimize our advertising? A lot of the times it's all about taking advantage of the most impactful scenes in an ad, which is not dictated by timing, it's not going to be the first five seconds or the last five seconds, it's not like the middle 15, whatever it may be.

35:00
You have to find those scenes that people engage with and throw your brain on top of that so what but the problem that we deal with as an industry is Humans have become accustomed to being very turned off by advertising We don't want to be like the normal consumer like we're all advertising folks. We love advertising It's fun for us, but you know like everybody else

35:30
doesn't love that at all. So what we see is we have this thing called conceptual closure where the last 50 years of advertising, if not more, has been very formulaic. It's 27 seconds of advertising or a story, and then you have three seconds of branding. The brain has been conditioned to shut off right before branding, and people will just like not remember what's going on.

35:57
Right? You have to take advantage of those moments and those elements that are very impactful. That allows you to put your brand in the best light. Um, and the formula for advertising needs to change. And that's the thing that we're trying to get to. It's like we, we needs to change because when you look at data, for example, like a very like simple example of this as well is when people like, there've been many eye tracking studies done when people go on to Google.

36:26
When people go into Google, they're going to immediately jump to the fourth or fifth search result because they know the first four or five ads and I do that. And, and, and like, and this is how we change this. And like, we got to be better at brand integration. We got to be better at like telling a story about our brands. I'm sure you can use celebrities, but don't make sure that your celebrities are not taking from your brand itself.

36:55
make sure that they're not attention vampires. And you have to tell a very positive story about your brand that relates to your brand, right? You can make a sweet, cute viral video that will be fine. And like, you know, people will like engage with it and like, you might be lucky if your brand is integrated with it. But as a brand itself, as you know, we've changed neurologically as well through one COVID, through two quarantines, through three like...

37:24
you know, over the years being conditioned to stuff, you have to be able to tell a story that consumers can engage with because the biggest consumer in the world, the consumers that are going to be able to like, drive some sort of like response are the people who are going to be like, feel like it's a personal thing to them. And that's why Facebook advertising is really good. That's why Instagram advertising is really good is because it's embedded within a very personal space.

37:53
And that's how we can like fix TV advertising is like by driving some sort of personal connection. But unfortunately, you know, that the old the worst sold a lot of the big TV ads that we see are going to be dictated by the old, you know, Don Draper, like average. Not that old. The old Don Draper like aesthetic, though, which is like, I'm going to pay five million dollars to have this like really great celebrity.

38:23
You know, but that's not going to convert anything. It's only going to get Drake more listens on Spotify. It's not going to make sure that you are selling State Farm. You know what I mean? Yeah, I thought we saw it a little bit. It was the only thing I liked about the Wayne's World spot, but I thought someone was going to be smart enough to do a TikTok ad for, for, for the ad, like using everything that is a TikTok or TikTok video, not ads, excuse me.

38:53
But just that whole notion edited, used, done as TikTok, I think it would have performed well. And I think, cause again, the tension spans in there and obviously with the, with the brand integrated, I think that's the biggest issue is yeah, it's great and all like the same thing with, with Rocket Mortgage, like

39:13
It was fun and it definitely, they were trying to relate it to the brand and I get it. It was all, you're almost whatever it was, you know, is it almost a parachute or whatever? Trade, trade, Tracy mortgage. Tracy mortgage. Yeah. But it's like integrating the brand in a way that keeps interest and holds interest, but drives engagement. And I think that's where it failed the most. Like I just, I feel like there was just this.

39:38
opportunity loss. And I think that's kind of like the game itself. So it's like the promise that it was supposed to be. So, you know, you write on a couple of counts. So, yes, those spots, I think we're going to all agree with the exception, maybe Reddit. Right. We're formulaic. Yeah.

39:58
25 seconds, 45, 55 seconds, three, three to five seconds of branding. Yeah. Right? The other thing we always talk about, and which I still think is effective, is reach and frequency. Yeah. Right? And a lot of these ads are one-offs. You're never really gonna see them again, unless it's the 20 greatest Super Bowl spots of all time, the Friday before the big game. So, what social media, in this brave new world, gives us is the ability to take that stuff

40:28
case it on TikTok and Instagram and get Tracy Morgan to post. I mean, there's so many venues now to continue the campaign rather than just one and done. Yeah. Last thing I'll say, like, real fast, Howard, think about two of my favorite Bud

40:53
the frogs wise. They're using the name of the brand. The frogs going, but why? And then the bud bowl with the bottles with, uh, with the guy calling the announcer of the game, the bottles are playing football against each other. It's like, you're using the product, you're bringing it in. I know that's like straight lines, but they were entertaining. Yeah. You know. So, so we were having a, we were having a conversation cause we've got a, you know, we've got a lot of very young people working here and uh,

41:19
And I asked them if they know what the spot was that kind of kicked off this Super Bowl Sunday commercial gala. Do you remember what it was? What spot it was? Well, wait, you said I got it. So Super Bowl Sunday had its start, this fascination with watching it not just for the game, but also for the commercials.

41:48
Yep. Right. What was the iconic brand? What was the famous spot that kind of kicked this whole thing? I think the Budweiser Clydesdales. No, no. I guess that same thing, Tyler. Mike did this to me. I guess the exact same thing. And it was it was high five. 1984 Apple.

42:07
Oh yes, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Well, I mean, I'm dressed like Steve Jobs. Yeah, right. Is that a turtleneck you have on? I don't like it. I mean, Shia Day, Shia Day created it. Ridley Scott directed it. It was a freaking epic. Yes. And your jaw dropped. I'm an ad nerd, my jaw dropped. Of course. And it was phenomenal. And it's still a phenomenal spot. Absolutely. Well, also the same thing goes. I think it's a really good point, too.

42:37
like some of these iconic, you know, just things that people, brands start to own. For example, Budweiser, this was the first year that they did not advertise in the Super Bowl, which goes back to the initial point that we were talking about, which is like, this is a unique Super Bowl where like ads didn't sell out until the week before, right?

43:03
So Sam Adams did a regional spot in Boston and New York, like in the Northeast, using the Clydesdales and showing the Clydesdales like running away from their like, I don't know. Yeah, exactly. But here's the thing, it didn't do shit for Sam Adams, to be honest with you. Like I think it really does a lot for Budweiser as a brand.

43:28
And it shows how influential Budweiser is. Like the fact that Budweiser had a ton of news, like every, like I was, I was looking at this like before the Superbowl too, it's like, it wasn't just ad agent ad week that we're talking about Budweiser advertising for the first time in years, in over 20 years, it was.

43:51
the Detroit News, it was the New York Times, it was like the Boston Globe, it was the Wall Street Journal, all talking about the fact that Budweiser wasn't advertising, that was very incredible. And that goes back again, it's like, the amount of money that people have obviously paid for advertising to the Super Bowl is great, obviously. But social and acts of like,

44:20
you know, investing money elsewhere, like Budweiser invested their money into, uh, you know, into, uh, what was it? COVID research or something like that. Right. Vaccinations, vaccinations. Right. So, so it's like, that is what's going to make a bigger impact, especially in a year like this.

44:38
And that's why you have so many brands that have backed out as well. But it was funny. I w we, we had our team meeting this morning and I joke to, to not have been in the super bowl between the, uh, the, the seltzers and the Clydesdale is being shown on Sam Adams, like they sure as hell felt like they were in the super bowl, but why?

44:57
They have the PR I will say that I told I joked someone last week the impressions If there was anything that could be could match the impressions They would have gotten buying the Super Bowl this PR play is probably superseding it for all the press coverage You just talked about Tyler. It's got to be in the hundreds of millions of impressions the PR they've gotten from Yeah, absolutely and then at the end of the day too, it's like what is an impression Yeah, there's been

45:27
make an impression, which is, again, like the whole crux of what we do, too. It's like to bring it back to your own. It's like, you know, sure, I can blast past this post on Instagram or on TikTok. But what we've seen is, you know, is that actually going to drive some sort of memory encoding response? Because half the time when I'm on TikTok or on Instagram or when any of us are, we're just kind of like brain dead and mindless. Like what is the best?

45:54
What's the best platform for us too? Yeah, exactly. So as we're kind of rounding out here with this episode, I'll kind of roundtable this one as well. Any kind of final thoughts on where we think Super Bowl ads in general, their impact. We got into that a little bit, but I'll kind of roundtable. Any final thoughts, Josh? Start with you.

46:24
YouTube celebrities and more, I guess social media people, I think people are still sleeping on how big YouTube is. It's like the second most trafficked website, period. There's just like, I think there's huge celebrities, people with built-in audiences who spend hundreds of dollars a month on merch for a single human.

46:48
you tie them in a brand, they're gonna buy from that brand. They all have rich parents and stuff like that. I could see that happening a lot more. Hopefully a little...

46:59
I think that's a really good point. I would say it's like as you think about and sorry to interject, but it's like, you know, it's like, as you think about, you know, one, what we've talked about earlier today too, is, you know, the nostalgia factor, like we're bringing in like the Bill Murray's of the world for talking about last year's Super Bowl or the John Travolta's, right? And the brands that are bringing in current celebrities that are current YouTube celebrities that are actually getting more views than anybody else is very, very smart.

47:27
I think that's a really, really good point, Josh. Definitely. And I can see a lot more music celebrities coming into. We've seen this over the past two years of Cardi B and Travis Scott being some of the biggest celebrities we've had, period. They're just massive, and people are using them a lot more. I guess it's all the built-in audiences. I'd like to see a little bit smarter use of nostalgia, because I'd like to see some new stuff. I don't want to keep dwelling in the past. That's why Hollywood keeps making sequels. Yeah.

47:57
I keep seeing all those articles of like all the current celebrities just look like old celebrities They just keep hiring. They just keep hiring new actors who look like the same people Kind of freaky Any final thoughts from you Mike? Yeah, you know, it's the fact that yes, it took a while to sell out In terms of media this year

48:18
But it's sold out and it still speaks to the fact that it is it is it is an unofficial American holiday and people do tune in to watch not only the game, but the spots. I don't think that's going to change. And and when it does is the year that my beloved New York Jets are back in the Super Bowl. And I'll probably be dead. Definitely.

48:43
Tyler, any final thoughts? I know we're teasing next week. We're going to see some of the results from Neuro Insights studies that you guys are doing on some of those ads. But anything as it relates to the Super Bowl or neuroanalytics?

49:00
100% Well, first things first, the Jets will never make it back. That's number one. Hey, you're in my hometown there. Show some respect. Hey, let's go Giants, baby. I'll root blue. I'll root blue, too. But the but the big thing, I think there is a couple of things. I think, Mike, you brought it up to it's like I is as sometimes negative as it may sound in in maybe like the way we present,

49:30
the investment that it takes to get a Super Bowl ad in. The biggest thing is you gotta make sure that it works. And understanding storytelling, understanding how people respond to things is the most important thing, which is what we're gonna talk about next week. But in general, understand the context, understanding how we can actually drive home a brand message is going to be the most important thing.

49:58
as we go forward because the Super Bowl is always going to get a ton of viewers. It's always going to be the highest reach. It's always going to be the most expensive. And the thing that really, really pisses me off is when advertisers spend a ton of money on.

50:14
you know, their ad that's going to be in the Super Bowl and it doesn't work. It doesn't just, it doesn't resonate with people. The ads that work are the ones that actually translate brand message. And that's how you're actually converting customers. Cause otherwise it's just fodder for people to talk about. You know what I mean? So, you know, I, I think at the end of the day, it's like, that's what we're trying to do. That's what we do as a company. It's like, we understand the storytelling. We want to make sure that like your story is being told in the most effective way, and that's what we'll talk about next week.

50:44
Cool. Tyler, where can everyone find more information on both yourself and NeuroInsights? Sure. So I can be found on LinkedIn via NeuroInsights. So you can find us at NeuroInsights LinkedIn. Also, my LinkedIn profile is linked to that. So you can find me there. We also have a Twitter and on.

51:09
Instagram as well at neuro underscore insight. So, uh, you know, you can find us all over there. Great, man. Really appreciate it. The last thing I'll say guys is I challenge people. If you're listening, uh, it's going to sound self-serving, but be radical. Like that, if that was my one disappointment of it all is like, let's push the envelope. I know that we live in a cancel culture and I know that it was difficult for brands of, of large size to take risks.

51:38
I respect that, I understand it as a business owner, but we have to, if I want it, you have to remain vigilant in being creative, being thoughtful, but we've got to continue to push the envelope in what we do, how we do, and how we use the power of social media, but bringing all of these things together. So I look forward to looking at the results next week. Tyler, and talking more, I appreciate it, Mike, I appreciate it, Josh. You know where to find us, we're at the.rad.cast on Instagram.

52:08
and theradcast.com at any time, and we'll see you next time. Thank you so much.

52:12
Yo guys what's up Ryan Alford here, thanks so much for listening, really appreciate it, but do us a favor, if you've been enjoying the Radcast you need to share the word with a friend or anyone else, we'd really appreciate it, and go leave us a review at Apple or Spotify. Do us a solid, tell more people, leave us some reviews, and hey here's the best news of all, if you want to work with me directly, if you want to get your business kicking ass, and you want Radical or myself involved, you can text me directly at 864.

52:42
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