Ryan Alford [00:00:00] Hey, guys, welcome to the latest edition of the Radical Marketing Podcast. I'm joined by a guy I used to run with, in New York, Adam Posner. Good to have you, brother. 

Adam Posner [00:00:23] Thanks for having me. I'm eager to catch up, reminisce and talk about current events in our life. 

Ryan Alford [00:00:30] What's going on! I'm going to give you your due here, Adam - Founder & President NHP Talent Group. Host of a podcast.  

Adam Posner [00:00:54] Yeah I'm a recruiter man, I'm a marketing recruiter. I recruit for all those jobs that I used to have back in the day, all the agency jobs, creative account management strategy, UI UX data, etc., all that stuff. I work with brands, I work with startups, I work with agencies and not just putting a warm body in a city, but it's really working with these companies to be an extension of their in-house talent team. Helping them with the process of interviewing, being that quarterback and something that I always like to say. You're a recruiter at your company. Whoever's handling talent, they're the first touchpoint of any new employee coming in. And they need to be that brand, they need to represent your company. And that's really what I built my business on. Like leveraging all those skills, 15 years working in advertising and marketing, the account management relationship stuff, parlaying that into my business. 

Ryan Alford [00:01:42] Let's start and give everybody a little bit of the Cliff Notes background on Adam. You and I had had a stop at EPI and together in New York, the southern guy moving up, living in New York with all you guys and trying to act like we fit in. But no, but let's walk people through your origin story through advertising and the business. And, maybe we'll land, where we're in this pandemic situation And you're in the throes of it in Long Island. And so let's give everybody just a little bit of that history. 

Adam Posner [00:02:24] I was born and raised a New Yorker or something that is in my blood. I'm sitting in Shea Stadium seats when they took down a stadium about ten years ago, but I knew the advertising market was in my blood. I did it in college – a great internship working like sports, buffalo sabres up there and everything. And I did it. I jumped into the crazy New York ad market. I worked at a bunch of different agencies. I went to the client-side. So I learned the other side of the business right. I learned the agency side and I learned what we like to call the client-side. And it was direct to consumer marketing learning the fundamentals of personalization, email marketing, direct mail, all subscriber base marketing, OEM with cars, auto, all that good stuff. We had the first streaming app? I was number five on the beta test for the Sirius XM and Sirius App before the XM, Pandora, Spotify, whatever else they're bringing in over there. And then I made a left turn do it. I went over to American Express after Sirius, which was interesting, and I thought it was going to be something that it wasn't. But I knew Ryan and I know if you ever had this experience. But on day one, I knew that it wasn't right for me. It just didn't feel good, right? It just didn't feel right. But I stuck it out. Man did offer for a couple of years. And then I decided to go back to agency life. And I was at a small place and I got wind of this agency called VaynerMedia. Gary Vaynerchuk was not a household name at the time. And I got an interview there. It went awesome. But they weren't hiring at the time. So I went back to the agency I wasn't really loving. And then in November, October 2014, Vayner came calling, went through the interview process, and I landed over at Vayner media. It was late 2014.

Ryan Alford [00:04:06] It's right when things were ramping up for Gary. I think I mean, obviously, he's been around, but in the agency world, like, the machine was really starting to turn then when it. 

Adam Posner [00:04:18] What's interesting about Gary was that it was one of the first nontraditional agencies. Breaking the mold and being disruptive. It was quick to market social first. It was interesting because, in the office, I just pulled back the curtain a little bit. And this is the original office. There were no assigned seats except for creative people and project managers. And they outgrew that space so quickly that there was a certain point when you came in where you literally had to sit on the floor. And I was like, “that really wasn't for me”. Anyway, I jumped in there, being quite ambitious. And, I was very excited to have my point of view and make an impact and everything. But it backfired pretty quickly. And I had learned that it was just wasn't the right place for me. The right time and that was hard, man, it just wasn't clicking for me. And unfortunately, I lost my job and I got fired and it was bad because I thought I made it to the top of the hill, top of the mountain. And I thought I was going to be there for a long time. I mean, Gary was somebody that I admired in so many different ways. And that day that I got let go, I remember it was like yesterday. And Gary and I have a great relationship. And we sat there for an hour talking about what happened and we broke it all down. And he said, listen, man, this most important piece of advice I ever received, he said, “you got to stop focusing on all the mess and double down on your strengths. And I'll be honest with you, Ryan, I thought he was literally just blowing smoke to get me out the door. “Here's your fortune cookie”. “Get the hell out right here”. Here are your words of wisdom. But it was just that dude. I mean, we sat there and we literally broke down all of my strengths, man, what you and I are doing right now, my ability to foster and develop relationships and honestly and pretty damn good at this marketing thing. I know what I'm doing. It may not have been a great place there, but I have those fundamentals. You got all these pieces, you're doing all these things. What are you going to do with it? I was like, well, I was thinking my buddy does health care recruiting and he does pretty well. Before I could finish my sentence, Gary turns to me and says, “dude, you would make an awesome recruiter and Nyman McKinney man, that's what I did. I walked out the door. I walked directly into the bar next door at eleven fifteen in the morning. I had a couple of double-doubles and then I called my wife and told her what happened. And the worst thing is it was April 1st; it's my anniversary. But what I did was I did my due diligence right before I started recruiting. I called every recruiter I ever worked with, reached out to a ton of them. No recruiter placed me DP and he's my dude now. Jeff Stewart and I learned everything I could without stepping foot on the job. Lucky enough for me, I got picked up like a free agent. I joined an agency called onward search because there's a lot of recruiting agencies where it's literally all metrics. This place understood that it was about relationships and they saw my strengths in having relationships. And I was going to bring it to the table and really foster that. But I was able to learn under a great mentor who really taught me the art and science of recruiting like I learned how to be a recruiter. And it's crazy thinking about starting a new career at the age of thirty-five. Forty thousand dollars a year. It's rough but I did it, I climbed the ladder. I was rookie of the year, put up some great numbers, one over to another agency, a UK based agency. I was there for about six months and chemistry wasn't right there. And I came home one night to my wife and I'm like, something's not good here. And she goes, “What? Why don't you just do this for yourself?” “And I'm not even sure you do.” It was half a second decision. I got done and went out on my own. It's been almost three years. 

Ryan Alford [00:08:07] Congrats, man. I've been a fan from afar watching your growth shows. And, I always loved you at the agency and you always had that flair that I loved and just being real, and I appreciate that translated into your success. Most deservedly the one thing and I don't want to I don't spend too much time. Gary is such a lightning rod. I think most people listening to any podcast now, he's such a fundamental player. Now, I think what can you do? What can you speak to? As far as I know, if he wasn't real. If he comes across that would be shown. He has to be exactly what you see. But is there any nuggets or anything like what's here and with him? 

Adam Posner [00:09:00] It's a great question. And let me just caveat that there, man. I was only there for about seven months. And that's a long time ago. Almost five years ago. And every time I see Gary, literally once or twice a year run into him, reconnect and everything, he's as real as the day I met him. And what you see is what you get. He is real. Now, there is the Gary versus Gary Vaynerchuk persona. There's a Gary Vaynerchuk CEO, business owner. And then there's a Gary V out there that you see. And a lot of people, that's all they see. Let me tell you something. And he doesn't need me to defend them. Believe me, he doesn't need me. But he is genuine. He is caring. He legitimately cares about his people in so many different ways. And he keeps it real and he really does. And what you see is what you get. 

Ryan Alford [00:09:48] You had several stops at agencies and again, I know 14, 15 lot has s changed. He had MySpace back then, he preached the anti agency, he's the anti-New York agency. But once you start having to hire 400 people in New York, it's hard for it not to become a New Yorker. 

Adam Posner [00:10:12] I've been in the new office a couple of times. I was there in December. I interviewed Claude Silver over there. And just like based on optics, I mean, once you get to your point, once you get to a certain size, there's a lot of operational elements that mirror a traditional agency. And traditional agency structure. But I mean, I can't talk right now about the culture. I can only actually can. I mean, I need to be called over. I mean, the culture is fantastic. What am I talking about? Of course, I can talk about the culture. I interviewed the head of culture over there. 

Ryan Alford [00:10:39] Yeah, right. 

Adam Posner [00:10:41] They're really focused on their employees. The employees are the lifeblood. And I think that's where it's separate from. If you're thinking about traditional agencies That have been around for a long time, that have a lot of flaws, a lot of cultural flaws they do things differently there. And you could feel it. But ultimately,  it's an agency based around one person, Gary. Like at the agency built around Gary, will it be still successful without Gary. That's a million-dollar question, right? 

Ryan Alford [00:11:09] I don't think so, but that's right. 

Adam Posner [00:11:12] Like Ogilvy, you can name how many other agencies could you name where the founders are like the figureheads. I mean there are a few big ones of them out there. 

Ryan Alford [00:11:25] I just think that perspective is important because I think people so many people just don't realize with social media, everything else, that if he was that he'd be getting called out left and right. And you just don't see that as we all consume you. Never you never do. I think he's running an agency and he's productizes. Is everything really well? He's a great marketer. But at the end of the day, I think if it wasn't what you were seeing, I think it would be pretty apparent. 

Adam Posner [00:11:57] Yeah. I mean, in this transparent social world where all the information's at your fingertips from a business perspective, you would know right away. Then you would know if you messed people over if he was not what you see, man. But he is. 

Ryan Alford [00:12:11] So let's talk about your podcast, the Pozcast, I know that's taken off for you. I know we talked pre-show about being, a new business type or marketing platform in a way, in delivering content that's relevant, meaningful and being yourself. But talk about the evolution of the Pozcast. Talk about some of your favorite guests. And let's get into it a little bit. 

Adam Posner [00:12:39] Foremost, I love podcasting, man. It has brought out so many elements of things that I love; being creative, having a platform. Howard Stern is somebody that I've always liked. But as it relates to the podcast, it's his style of interviewing. And if you're a Howard fan or not, but when he transitioned from traditional radio to satellite radio. He now has an open format where instead of it being able to interview a guest for a 15-20 minutes commercial break, he literally just goes and goes. I don’t know if you caught the Tom Brady one recently that was on a couple of weeks ago, He interviewed Brady for two and a half hours. It was so deep and it was just a conversation like we're having right now. And that's the way I try to approach every show that I do. I do a lot of preparation, just like Howard does. Howard does a ton of research and maybe his support staff is doing it. But he's doing his homework right. He's super informed. He knows lots of intimate details. But most importantly, he takes the listeners on an arc. He takes them into a story arc. And it relates with all of his guests in a conversational form. And that's really what I try to do. But I just start out that way? I mean, I'm up to almost 95 episodes recorded and aired. And it didn't start out that, the podcast started out with an idea, said, I want to try this thing. And it started out with me recording a networking call with somebody in my network. And I said, “let's keep going with this”. And I started to go into my network and put everything in. And I realized, “my network is my net worth and I have so many amazing people that I know I could bring to the forefront, shine a light on them. And that's my show. And my show is not about me.” I interject. I get my point of view as any good hosts do, but I spotlight those guests. But it's an interesting mix. So it's a guest from my career journey at different stages of it, which reflect my career story and then experts in the world of recruiting talent acquisition. Now I'm starting to move into more life journeys. I have a couple of NFL athletes, a couple of Olympians coming on to me, and it's just been an amazing journey for myself, for the show, for the followers, and tapping into all those marketing skills that I know for years, man, like how to promote, how to create content. And it's stuff that I love and you and I were talking about before. The not-so-secret, secret podcasting is that it's an exceptional business development tool. Like if I'm going to reach out to a KMO or some best avatar at some target and hit them with cold calls and emails and everything, I'm going to Chip Saltsman. But, “hey, it's pretty easy”. Hey, you want to come on my pretty successful podcast for an hour and talk about what you do in your career and everything. I have a rapport with them. Now I have their phone number. And now when it comes time to turn on the business, it's warmed up. 

Ryan Alford [00:15:26] It doesn't work or even the inbox stuff. But if you ask them to come on your show, you give them some context, maybe share an episode or something and give them a little feedback on your listenership. There they want to tell their story to. Now it's marketing for them. It's a relationship starting for you and you get great content out of it. 

Adam Posner [00:15:58] And the gems that have come. And here's the other crazy thing, like I used to read a lot of books before kids. I used to read a lot of business books too, and everything, and I put that down. I haven't read a good business book in a while. I think Gary's book, Crushing It from a few years ago was the last book I read. So the podcast for me is my learning, right? It's my master's class right now. It's my MBA program where I'm surrounding myself with these experts who had a job, knowledge bomb after knowledge bomb. And that's how I absorb by listening.  

Ryan Alford [00:16:26] I love it. Favorite guest? I'm putting you on the spot. 

Adam Posner [00:16:29] No, I got a couple here, so I have two favorite guests. One is with Claude Silver. That was a show that I filmed live in the intermediary offices for my first live interview. And I have great footage from that. And it was very emotional for me to be there in her office. I saw Gary afterwards caught up with him. But that conversation goes deep because I ask her questions I don't think anybody else has. What does it feel like to actually fire somebody? What goes into that thought process when making that decision? Like, I wanted to go deep and I wanted to relate. Like that's a type of shit that I wanted to bring to the table there. My other favorite guest is, I think it's with Joel and felt you might know Joel. Joel was big on Twitter. He went over to it, he did a bunch of amazing things. He's a good buddy of mine from college. He was my mentor for a long time and he just has an incredible career. He'd be a great guest on your show.

Ryan Alford [00:17:22] I remember I love Joel working with him. He was at an agency.

Adam Posner [00:17:34] He was the youngest team over there and he's got like if you want to spend a few minutes and listen to go to go check out that show and I'm trying to promote my own show on your show, but go to that show and listen to him tell his story. I just sat back and put the mic down and let him just go, man. And he tells his career journey that you're like, wow, an anthropology major for the University of Buffalo. And he's like, “What? No, it's a great story. And like being there on the sidelines as you were saying before him, watching him and being successful, that was like me looking up and saying, what, he could do what I could do. Like he did it coming out of a dumb ass school like University of Buffalo. No offense. But school doesn't matter, it matters who you are and what you bring to the table. And Joel just crushes life! And he and I remain tight. I mean, I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago. He's is now the CMO of NorCal Cannabis. 

Ryan Alford [00:18:31] That's an interesting business. It's only scratching the surface. 

Adam Posner [00:18:39] It's fascinating, man. You talk about cannabis and CBD and it's interesting. MarketWatch for sure.

Ryan Alford [00:18:48] We've been approached and we're trying to figure out the best way to navigate it. I wanted to have my ducks in a row before. You just dive in there.

Adam Posner [00:18:59] Unless you're focused on that. I mean, there's another great guest I had with him is Jared Mirsky. He's actually going to be back on. He's a founder of an agency called Wick & Mortar. He's another potential great guest to get the whole agency around cannabis marketing. But, dude, you can see the packaging and the thought process is beautiful! 

Ryan Alford [00:19:17] It's a luxury good.

Adam Posner [00:19:19] Look at the price point on that stuff? Like you got a package. You don't throw it in a cellophane bag or tinfoil.

Ryan Alford [00:19:26] You got to pack it. I've done some project work from some of the companies that are like the same thing. I mean, right before the canvas was taken off and like it's an interesting market, and there's some luxury and it's marketing. I mean, it is like the thought process, everything that goes in it. But it's really fascinating to watch it. So talk about the Italian group NHP. What's evolution been like being an entrepreneur now? Like I was there for something about. Any good war stories so far? 

Adam Posner [00:20:06] I've been through it all, man. I also once I stopped working for somebody else and worked, started working for myself, everything changed. And the dynamic that changed man was and you notice it's zero fail. And once you have the zero fail mentality, everything else man just thrives off of that. I mean, that's my motivation. I know that I need to be successful to take care of my family. I mean, I don't say that I have lost business during this pandemic. I have lost opportunities. I don't lose any business. And I lost opportunities that I would probably have because people aren't hiring in my field. I mean, I'm lucky enough. I got to know half my business and right now I'm using this time wisely to quadruple down on content, build my own brand, build a company brand. And that's what I'm doing. But, having your own business is a game-changer. It's a mindset. It changes everything. And it's really brought out the podcast. It's brought out so many qualities in me that I knew I had. But never came to the surface. 

Ryan Alford [00:21:10] The accountability is ground zero. And not that I don't see. You're not this guy. I'm not that kind. We're not finger pointers. But when it's all to accountability, it's just like there's no shared accountability. Like when you're in an agency or a big company or something like that, you've got this insulation. And even if you aren't mentally going, oh, I have insulation, you but you instinctively feel it. 

Adam Posner [00:21:44] Look at the other people under the bus. There's no one to throw under the bus by herself. But it goes back to everything changed for me from a vulnerability and accountability and a self-awareness standpoint the day I got fired, man, because I literally had to look myself in the mirror and say, “who was right, that what's it called Zululand?” A moment like, “who am I”. Like, you have to look at him, right? He's looking down in the puddle and he's reflecting. And that's the truth, man. Like you have to say, who am I? What am I really doing here? What am I really good at? And once you start to open up that true self-awareness and accountability, everything changes. Everything changes. Because you are being truthful with yourself? You're not lying to yourself. And I say, I'm trying to do something that I suck at, let me put that. She decided that we focus on the things I'm good at because I know that's going to pay dividends in the end. And you build that mentality and there's trial and error. Believe me, I know when I started this business I thought it was going to be one direction, really building out something big. And then I said, you know what I really am operating well with this boutique model. I've got a couple of people that work for me figuring out different ways to scale it. And I don't kif I want to be running a big company. I just got to be truthful about it, 

Ryan Alford [00:22:55] More money, more problems!

Adam Posner [00:22:57] That's what they say. My goal is to make enough money so my wife doesn't have to work. That's what I've been asked this question before - what’s your number. And I say, my number is going to be when I could figure out what it takes for her not to work because she doesn't want to work anymore and she wants to spend all the time with the kids.

Ryan Alford [00:23:26] I want to know what the child abuse numbers are. How many domestic disputes, what are the percentages on that. 

Adam Posner [00:23:34] That's the dark side. And, a lot of bad things are going to come out of this, right? I mean, let's start with even like I walk through my neighborhood, man, I see gloves and masks on the floor. Like, I don't understand why people can't throw that out. And then we talk about there are a lot of people right now that are trapped. They're villains. There's a lot of people we're going to work or school for them. Is that an escape? It's that time out of the house. It's scary, man. I know the numbers drop. Suicide numbers are up. It's rough. This is definitely a dark time in our culture, but I think that there's so much light coming out. There's so much innovation. There's so much togetherness. There's always going to be the dark side. So, let that light shine in. 

Ryan Alford [00:24:11] Maybe since we went down that path, the New York ad world pretty hard. We talked pretty sure about that. But, like we're all insulated. If we're not one of the fastest-growing agencies in South Carolina and looking at our revenue numbers that it's like this. But admittedly, March and April have got us planned out. But we're not going down. But it's but that trajectory has slowed. But I just don't know how New York is getting smashed by this. 

Adam Posner [00:24:55] Yeah, it's industry-specific, right. There's pharma that's doing well to certain sectors doing well, but every sector is getting hit. Every agency is getting hit because if you're a consumer good and you're not selling it if you're hospitality travel, it's all going to trickle down. What's going to be the first to go? It's going to be your agency supported in your marketing, your marketing budget goes. And then the agency supporting that marketing budget goes. I mean, trickle down. It's going to be tough. And, you flip it on its side, too. From a recruiting standpoint. There are companies that are hiring. And never in recent years, never in recent years have there been so much A-list talent available on the market, which is great for them, because if you're a company and you could hire, you're going to pick up some great talent right now. But it sucks if you're a B or C player, it's going to make that job search so much harder. And so it's evolving, man. But I'm optimistic. And New York is an anomaly. Right? We talked about it before. Social distancing is hard here just by the sheer nature of the concentration, the saturation of people and activity. We're on top of each other. Trains, buses walking on the streets! So, New York is going to take a while. It's going to be interesting to see how companies open up. It's a balance as a leader to be optimistic and rational at the same time. How do you balance that? We're going to get back to work togetherness, but at the same time, I want my employees to be comfortable. I want them to feel safe. I want them to feel trusted. I want them to feel “ okay, coming back to work”. I want them to feel “okay, telling me that they're not ready to come back to work”. It's uncharted. 

Ryan Alford [00:26:31] It is. There's no playbook for anything that's going on. But you talked about a little bit keeping that boutique feel within HP, but like, what are the mile markers out there? But are there other goals, other things that maybe aren't maybe completely numbers based or I don't want to have 30 employees or…

Adam Posner [00:27:00] I think it’s client base. I think that I want to scale to a point where I could empower other people to do what I do right. Where I could put trusted consultants and advisors into the company underneath my shingle here and build that name brand, and it's only two and a half years. And that's infancy in the world of building a business. But I really have done a tremendous amount of relationship building and surround myself with good people, good advisors. And for me, that's a mile marker. Making sure that I'm doing things the right way. And I'll put a number out there, man. I mean, I don't and I won't tell the number, but last year, I put up a really impressive number for myself – a big financial number for me. It was a number I never hit in my career. It was a number that was a goal number. I reached the number and I did it and it was awesome. And thank God I did, because right now, revenue's down almost five per cent year over year. So it's important to have that money in the bank right now and not spend it on any more branded hats. 

Ryan Alford [00:28:04] As we close things out, any good tips? Either on the entrepreneur side, the recruiting side, you need playbook tips or things or where you see things going as it relates to the market just in general with your life experiences and your entrepreneurial path that you've gone through. 

Adam Posner [00:28:25] There's a couple of things I hold dear to me on a mindset and an action real, tangible action thing. So, foremost is trust. Your gut is something that I believe in. If you feel something the first time, go with it. Don't overthink things. And I'm a chronic overthinking man. So I've really been trying to trust my gut and my instincts and really follow that. Be careful who you take advice from. I take advice from people who have actually been through it. There's a lot of gurus, a lot of people out there trying to tell you what to do, who to be and all that. Listen to people who you see that you admire for real. So just be mindful of that. When it comes down to it day by day, actionable advice, the best piece of advice that I received recently was from my mentor. His name is Tom Hall. When I started recruiting he said to me, plan your work and work your plan. I say this to myself every morning when I'm ready to go to work; when I'm ready to turn on that computer and boot up, what am I going to do today? What do I need to get done and what's my plan for attacking it?  And I write it out. I put my notes down, I go, these are my checklist. These are things I got to do. And listen, man, you and I both have no distractions, client calls, kids, all that to cut you off. But at least I know there's accountability there. I know I stuck to it. I got done what I needed to do and there was a plan there. And then something I follow from Gary. It’s all clouds and dirt philosophy. There are times when you got to be looking forward and looking in the future and then you're down in the dirt grinding away and staying away from that middle ground in the middle ground, in the gray area. That's where chaos goes to die. 

Ryan Alford [00:29:53] Love it, man. Well, let's keep up how people can find you the podcast information. How can everyone stay up to speed with everything you're up to and find you? 

Adam Posner [00:30:05] Absolutely, man. So first and foremost, I'm on LinkedIn. You will find another Adam Posner from Australia who is my awesome LinkedIn pen pal who I had on my live show. We have one of the best live shows together. It was awesome, man. We had so much fun. It was actually a great show. He's a loyalty marketer in Australia. He's a speaker. He's a big name in Australia. He's huge in Australia. The company website is NHP TalentGroup.com, everything Pozcast related, the Pozcast dot com. You can find all the episodes and follow me there. I'm trying to do some stuff on Twitter. I can't get into Twitter. 

One thing I did want to mention before and we really didn't talk about Greenville, but there's a little fun fact before things went south there. And we'll leave that where it was with everything. But WiFi and I were actually open to looking to move down there at one point before we were still in the city where there was a potential opportunity to move down to Greenville. I've been down there about four or five times. And I told you, that's like I love Greenville. Like it was warm like it was great people, it was just awesome. It's one of the things to look back on. I mean, obviously, I'm happy where I am now, but everything happens for a reason. And I went to great folks like yourself, man. 

Ryan Alford [00:31:36] I know. Well, yeah, Greenville is booming and everybody's taking a little blip, but it's even better. And, we live downtown and our office here is downtown. And also it's been good. I'm wearing my ex. We started the little foundation network thing called Greenville Hustle. And so we've been raising money for the community through all this so that Greenville is a great place. I appreciate you saying that and good stuff. And it's been great to catch it.

Well, let's do this again soon and catch up and stay in contact, and I really appreciate you coming on. I know people will love following your journey a little bit, at least getting the highs and the lows of entrepreneurship and self-growth. And, some of the stuff on Gary V. Just knowing his growth is both, I think, enlightening for people that just, they only see what they see or hear what they hear. Really appreciate you being open to all that. 

Adam Posner [00:32:48] Absolutely. 

Ryan Alford [00:32:50] Thanks so much. Hey, guys, thanks so much to Adam Posner on this edition of the Radical Marketing Podcast. We will see you next time.