00:00
You're listening to The Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast. If it's radical, we cover it.

00:13
Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of the rad cast. I'm Ryan Alford, your host, your number one business and marketing show on Apple podcasts. We appreciate that wherever, whenever, however, you're listening. We say if it's radical, we cover it. And anytime I get friends.

00:34
And anyone associated with Clemson on the show because they're kicking ass and taking names. I get even more excited. I got my good friend, Eric McLean. He's a college football analyst with ESPN, the ACC network. And of course the co-host of the Gramlich and McLean podcast. What's up, Eric? Brother, listen, here's the deal. When I got the message to come on this show.

00:54
I knew I'd made it first take ESPN college game day, throw all that to the side. This is where I wanted to be brother. So jacked up to be with you today. I appreciate you having me and excited to jump into a bunch of different things. Hey man, my, it's my pleasure. And I appreciate that. Uh, and, uh, at the end of the day, it's been fun watching your growth on TV, on the show with, uh, Kelly, you know, days at CCP.

01:21
And, you know, and, but look at the days, it did at Clemson, you know, you being a big recruit and I watched your whole career unfold there. You know, you were the rock in some of the glory days at Clemson. We've talked about that. We won't hone in too hard. We're having a little bit of a struggle this year, but, uh, you know, but it's been great. I've been, I've loved watching your growth and look, dude, you're fucking killing it on TV. I love it, man. You look great. I'm sitting there watching my boy. We were watching you on Saturday.

01:50
I'll sit there with Nicole and I'm like, Eric's coming on the show. So she's like, Oh really? I'm like, he's like, she's like, he does a great job. I'm like, yeah, he does. It's been so fun, man. I mean the journey and the people I work with, I know we'll get into all that, but yeah, it has been a true blessing, man. And it cannot be more excited, more thankful, more grateful for where I am and excited to chop it up with you. Yeah, man. Well, let's set the table for everybody. Eric.

02:19
Eric's, you know, don't, don't let him be humble. He was, he is, he was a big time college athlete and, uh, but I want him to tell you his story and then we'll get into, man, that the game's changed a lot. Those few years, it had been long since you left there, but we'll get in there. I want to talk to NIL on some of the business stuff, but let's set the table and let you kind of give a little bit of that backstory for everybody.

02:43
Yeah, no doubt, man. You're absolutely right. The game, you know, it feels like I played 100 years ago, you know, not eight or nine, whatever it's been getting closer to 10 by the day. But, um.

02:53
Yeah, so it's funny man my whole life. I grew up wanting to be a basketball guy. You know, it's just it was my first love, my true love, and just had such a knack for the sport. I'm a shooter, you know, I love to flick that thing and just stay on the court. I mean, for hours, I mean, my brother and friends and family members, that's all we would do growing up. You know, don't come home till the lights are off. You know, the sun goes down because we're out shooting hoops. And, you know, it was funny in a world now where I feel like everybody is so specialized.

03:23
like you kind of pick. You know, that choice was kind of made for me because I always had aspirations to try to make it, not just to college, which is obviously a big deal and to have your school paid for and the doors of that will open, but professionally. I just always felt like that was my thing. I was going to do that.

03:43
and

04:13
of high school is when we started cranking that way up. But I do have to go back a couple of years because I grew up a Tennessee fan, volunteers, any Vols listening, that's where I always wanted to go. Peyton Manning, Coach Fulmer, Eric Barry, all these guys. And most of my family went to Tennessee. So it was really normal for me to want to do that and actually received a scholarship and committed as a ninth grader in high school to Tennessee to play football. Fast forward, Philip Fulmer gets fired.

04:42
even more Lane Kiffin comes in and it just was such a culture shock. It was so different.

04:50
that I just didn't want any part of it. And it broke my heart, because that's where I want to go my whole life. Run out of the tee, be in Knoxville, do all these things. And it just so happens, talk about relationships and communicating all these different things in the business world that are so applicable. I got a crash course of that as a 15 year old kid, because one of the coaches that was on staff to Tennessee that I'd known for a long time, you know, got hired by Clemson. My coach Davos Sweeney, his name's Dan Brooks,

05:20
And so after I decommitted, you know, he hits me up and he says, Hey, you know, Big Mac, it's Dan, it's coach Brooks. And I'm at Clemson now. I was like, coach, what's up? This is all hadn't heard from, you know, he was very respectful. Did not hit me up until after I had decommitted. And he's like, Oh, I'm at Clemson. Da da da. I'm like.

05:39
Clemson. I legitimately, Ryan, had no clue what or where Clemson was. Had zero clue. I grew up in SEC country. My grandmother and her side of the family went to Alabama. Her husband and my mom and all of them went to Tennessee. Oh my God. I did not know that about you. I didn't remember that. Maybe we had that discussion, but because you always seem like a Clemson guy. You know, when I first met you, I'm like, this guy's this Clemson man right here.

06:09
I'm like, what?

06:10
Where is it? What do you, you know, all these different things. He's like, well, we're in South Carolina. We're in the ACC. And I said, Whoa, no, heck no. Like I'm not doing that. And, uh, which is so comical now looking back at it all. And, uh, you know, so finally fast forward a year almost, he hits me up again. He says, just come by and visit. I think you'll like, you know, what you see. So now I'm going into my senior year, you know, kind of the end of my junior year and, uh, we do it, we go and see it. And, you know, we're coming off the highway 85 on 19.

06:40
and

07:10
like this sunflower patch right on perimeter and we're looking at the Tom Tom the GPS whatever and you know it says you're a minute away I'm like there is nothing where is a stadium about to come out of here and I'm getting I'm just talking about it right now but you know when you make that turn on perimeter and then Death Valley just rips out of those trees man and I'm just like oh this is cool like this is nuts and it obviously a big stadium

07:38
And then I meet Coach Schweeney and.

07:41
I mean, you talk about a no name guy, never been a coordinator, was a head coach for maybe half the season and was in the midst of a losing season, something of that nature. And so had no like no type of, oh my God, that's dabo type thing yet. And but when I met him, man, in the passion, the enthusiasm, the genuine love for his players in the game of football, I was like, this is different. You know, this is different from anything I had ever seen before.

08:11
And it was so infectious, man, that literally in a two-day span, I was like, I'll do anything for that guy. Like, I want to play for him right now. And so it's so comical to me that, you know, we think that we have our plan, and, you know, God kind of has his plan. And I never even knew where this place was, man. And in an instant, I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life there. And it was so powerful just to have that kind of conviction and to know that guy, and then to see where it grew and went on.

08:40
rest is kind of history with that, but it's a wild story how I even got it start, you know, at Clemson university. Yeah. And it's crazy because I mean, you would start as tight end, right? Then you go tight, you know, tight end, catch them, they could block, catch some balls. Yeah. You're going to catch some balls and then, uh, go on to be, uh, pretty dominant Olineman, uh, before it was all said and done. What was your final, what was your last year?

09:08
It, it Clemson. Yeah. 15. I got silver metal. Dude, you needed one more year. Where's your COVID year or whatever? You needed it. I was just before my time and everything I did at Clemson. Yeah. If you're listening, Clemson, uh, won the national title in 2016. So, uh, that table got set by, uh, Eric back claim, you know, so, uh, I'll spread that story, you know, we'll go with it.

09:38
Yeah. What was, all right, let's, you know, we'll close out the clips in years, but what's like one of the most memorable games, memorable moments, you know, what sticks in your head? I mean, I know, I'm sure there's a lot of different things, but like, is there like a moment, a game or something that just, when you have, when you get asked this question now it like pops to the top.

10:04
There's two, there are two. And one is obviously that national championship game, you know, losing to Alabama. Just because we got there, right? We got to the mountain top and it was something that.

10:16
I think every little kid dreams about is they're running around playing in their backyard of playing in a national championship, winning it hopefully. And for us just to do what we did at Clemson and to get to that mountain to change the culture and what we had done the previous years to get there. Was just special and something that we always thought was possible. That's why my 2011 class came there and really was kind of that building block. A lot of those guys, what we were able to do on top of

10:46
of who Alabama was and what they were doing. I mean, you're talking about peak dominance. I mean, these guys had just been wrecking people, winning all these national championships. And we went into the game as heavy underdogs. And I remember reading and hearing all the talk about how our offensive line was gonna get just destroyed. And of course, being an offensive line, and you take that very personal and we dominated. And I just knew that, going into the game, it was like, Ryan,

11:16
one mistake even if I step the wrong way I'm going to get abused by this guy like I'm going to get absolutely ruined so it just made you play so much better I think that was my best game by far to just kind of all that on the line there and you know just just being there in the last one ever was was truly amazing on a more positive note my other favorite is that Notre Dame game pretty personal game for me that's where my father is from up there

11:46
either love them or hate them that are up there because it's kind of 50 50. And so once I knew they were on the schedule and it was my senior year, I was like, this is going to be a party. Be why G baby hurricane was that be why G okay. It's all of it. And you know, the hurricane, everything that had to do with that music, South Carolina was in a state of emergency. Yeah, he Haley said Clemson's playing ball. All right, I was sitting in the stands. I've never been more wet in my entire life. I didn't get up the entire time.

12:16
Oh dude, my rain gear has never been the same. But I sat there and cheered you on. I was like, yeah. So that one was a lot of fun and just the way it ended. I mean a goal line stand and I've got this really cool picture of just me and my brother. My brother played on the team as well. Walk on wide receiver of us just embracing on the field. So just a lot of great memories from that one.

12:41
Oh yeah. Ben Bolware and company making the stop there on the goal line. Uh, that was memorable and got a nasty game. I've never, I've never been so happy and miserable in my whole life. If we'd have lost, I'll sit there going like, I don't know that I let it creep in my head. I think I thought about it after I was like, I was in elation and happy, but anyway, I've been soaked for four hours or five hours, like, and, uh, if we had lost the, wow, this would really have stunk. Like sat in this.

13:11
terrain but that's what a fan does. You know it's funny about sitting there. You talk about being there for five hours. We knew like all day leading up to it that it was gonna be bad. Like raining and horrible and the state of emergency announcement, all these things. So we fully expected.

13:27
to come around that stadium and it'd be like half full. And brother, that was not even close to the suitcase. We got even more people there. And I think the rain just like juiced y'all up. That was one of the craziest loud games I'd ever been a part of. It was nuts. Nuts. It was completely nuts. And I was there actually there with my father-in-law, Nicole's dad. And we were the two sitting there and we were just sitting there like just.

13:52
I mean, button up, like, let's look, you know, we're staring each other. Like, it was just because you've gone to those games where, you know, it's sprinkles or whatever, and it's just dumping rain the entire time. But, uh, BYOG that was one of Dabo's favorite quotes. Bring your own guts, baby. I actually got it right here. I got a prop. This was unpropted, but I got it right here on my desk. Yes. I love it. But, uh,

14:17
Hey man. I mean, it's, so it's been a worldwide, you know, you're bad ass at Clemson. Yeah. You set up, you set the table for the, for the, you know, the, the national title or 2016 now. I mean, you're a big dog. You're at ACC network on TV. You got your own podcast. I'm like, my boy, my boy's like, dog grows up. He's making it. So what's that been like, man? What's, what's

14:45
What's the professional journey been like kind of getting to this point? Yeah, no, it was crazy man because I talk about uh, you know those pro aspirations and something that really

14:56
and

15:26
family there. You're at the house. People are in. Yeah, I'm hearing stuff like I'm thinking it's going to happen. And you know, you got everybody there, man. And there is nothing more like embarrassing, saddening, make you angry, like all these different things, because that phone don't ring. And all those people just like now, you know, we just were with you for you all this time. Now what and do that was not it wasn't a dark time because

15:53
You know, I would always have a plan, like what's next type of deal. Um, but it was, I mean, it was a flash in the bottle. Like, oh my gosh, this is miserable. Uh, you would think they'd have a way to buy. I've talked to a couple of guys now about that very thing and I've watched it. I mean, nothing worse than the, what, the green room thing where they sat there and they have it, they haven't even told them, I mean, like that's, that's it. Times a thousand, like, but it's the same thing. Like it might, I don't know if that's worse or better than you're sitting there and you've got your 50 breath friends over and it's like, you would think they

16:23
you a bone like like like every team could at least go you know like you could go am I gonna it was especially if your seventh round it's not like it shouldn't be that much Intel at that point I wouldn't think I can are you and I like you signed some agreement that you won't tell anyone so they don't right and so like so that you don't like over plan for it. Could they do that? To know what do you guys know? You know it's crazy is we actually got I got a call from the Cowboys in the fifth round.

16:52
They were probably five, six picks away, which would have been a great spot. I mean, there's a lot of money in the fifth round and Dallas would have been amazing. And I get a call from I believe it was the offensive line coach has been, suppressed out of my memory. But and he calls he says, hey man, we love you. If we take an offensive lineman here, you're the guy. And I'm freaking out. I'm like, this is amazing. And then the call never comes. They take like a cornerback and the rest of the draft. I didn't have I maybe had one thing in the seventh.

17:22
And then that was it and you're just like, what happened? Because it's even more awkward because a lot of those guys, you know, some people kind of like what you said, they go into it and have these kind of free agent things already signed. Well, I did. So you're talking about a full 24 hours of silence and I'm just like, do I just move on? Like is this is this it? This is over. And you know, so the next day I hear from the Panthers, you know, we do like the the mini camp thing go up there and I'm excited right?

17:52
and

18:22
we're so sorry the way the numbers are, we've got to cut you, but we want you guys to stay healthy. And I'm looking around like, no way. Like this is, there's nothing else I could have done. There's no way I could have done better. And so then I have kind of a one-on-one meeting with the GM and the offensive line coach, and they're like, hey man, we really like you. It's just a numbers thing. We need this position. We don't need, but stay healthy, keep working out. Maybe by week, like seven or eight, we'll call you if somebody gets hurt.

18:52
just like, that's not how this is about to go. So I can either sign right now or it's okay. So to this day, can you say, I mean, do you, you know, sometimes when you think about things in the moment and then you think about lineup, but to this day, do you feel like you more than like, were better than maybe guys that are, that were making the team? Oh yeah.

19:11
And I'm gonna, you were a badass. Like, I mean, it did surprise me to hear that. Like, no, but you were a great player. I mean, it's like, you know, anybody that doesn't know, Eric McClane was a badass in the Office of Lionel. So, like- And let me tell you this though, I'll take it a step further. Guys that I'm covering right now in my job, I see them at the next level, I'm like, bro. How did I not make, this is crazy. So I watch that guy every day. But they gave you nothing, like, no one to this day has really given you like- It was just the timing. Just the timing thing. Yeah. Just the timing thing.

19:41
So I reversed it on him though, cuz I'm about to get married. I'm not number one, just sitting around not being paid. Yeah. And number two, I'm not gonna jump all across the country on some practice squad hoping and praying something happens. Yeah. So I kinda flipped it on him and said, here's the deal, I'll sign right now and this will be great or I'm just, I'm done.

20:01
And they were shocked, man. They're like, what? Like, what are you talking about? No way. And I said, yeah, that's kind of how it is. And they said, well, we're sorry. So I walked out of that thing, man. And I called my wife first and you know, she's devastated cause obviously that's what we've done. You know, my whole life, her whole life too, her dad grew up playing football, her brother plays football. So our lives have been football. And so obviously very sad for me. And then just kind of the what's next thing. The next call is to my parents. And then the third one is to Graham Neff.

20:31
at Clemson and I kind of say hey I just got cut I'm done I want to finish my masters and I don't want to pay for it and he said we'll see on Monday we'll figure it out and that was kind of the beginning of a business Eric McLean. I think I knew the Panthers thing but I'd not fully know like that you didn't like seek out other things and like you just kind of drew it was it was just like well but Eric

21:00
look, is proving out how talented you are on and off the field. No, I'm serious. I'm going to brag for you. Like, you know, and I think, you know, some people don't know that they have other options and I think, you know, you would dabble in some things and, you know, showing your worth on and off the field in building relationships, being good at speaking with people and, you know, just overall, I don't know, acumen for how to be a business person.

21:29
And I think that that superseded any ability on the field. So I think that sets you up and you knew that on some level and maybe that and just pride and stubbornness combined. Who knows? We all know who that is. So I got the t-shirts and the, you know, the lashings and everything else to go with it, but, uh, I mean, so, uh, but no other, did other teams ever call? Did everybody ever One team called in September.

21:57
And it was actually the Tennessee Titans, which would have been great too. Being from Tennessee. And yeah, I told them, I told them I'm done and they were just as shocked. You were like, are you kidding me? I said, yeah, it's just take me off the list, man. It's all good. It's crazy. But you know, you'd, I think you knew, you know, maybe you wanted to do what you're doing and you knew there was a, I will say, I will say there was, um, maybe not right in that moment, but maybe a week or so later, there was almost a freedom of it, you know, because.

22:25
That's how you had been identified, how I had been identified my whole life. Oh, it's a football. This is Eric, the football player, you know, and that there was something about that chapter being closed and not, you know, just identifying like that, which I never did personally, because there's so much more to life. But, you know, not having that. But then it is, you know, funny. That game will always pull you back. You're always right back in it some way or another. But now, you know, now you're there. So what?

22:53
Where did we go from there and what got you all the way to today? Yeah. Crazy. Uh, so, so did the graduate, you know, assistantship with, with Clemson was kind of with football and basketball and baseball with a bunch of different things there, so having that even ring, I was on that team just in a different capacity. So I did that for about nine months and then a new venture was coming to Clemson, uh, and JMI sports. I'm not sure if you ever ran across with, with those guys. So I sold for them. Um,

23:22
for really like two and a half years or so maybe, which was, you know, it was funny at the time, Graham or excuse me, Dan Radakovich called me in his office and just was like, hey, you know, this is happening. We think it would be a really good kind of foundational piece for you because he knew I wanted to go into college athletics from the administrative route. We think you should take it. It's a sales role, blah, blah, blah. You kind of see a different vantage point that a lot of people don't with these multimedia rights. And so at the time I was just like,

23:52
maybe and he's like no I really think you should do it. So I go and do it kind of hesitantly and man that that has been one of the biggest blessings of my life because the foundational it was basically another grad school right a real life degree where I'm learning how to sell I'm learning marketing I'm learning law and contracts and how to just sit and have a meeting how to set up a meeting you know with somebody and had a cold call like all these attributes that you know we

24:22
school, but you know to have this real life learning for two years and some change has been an unbelievable foundation for me that I still use to this day with the podcast and you see this sponsor right behind me with Ingalls and you know all these different things that I never would have ever thought about taking that route if it wasn't placed, you know kind of in my way there. So I'm forever grateful for that time and you know, it's such a fun piece that I can pull from and learnings and different things that we did there. So did that for about two years in Greenville?

24:52
and then our national championship season in 18, where we're just killing everybody, kicking everybody's tail. We're out in California for the Natty. And we went a couple of days early as a family and we're doing all these different things. And kind of within that, I had been doing the fifth quarter show for Clemson, which is a radio show after the game, 90 minutes, you're talking about all different kinds of things. So I kind of dipped back into a little bit of media there on top of my sales stuff.

25:22
as well, but also just as a fan. So, you know, we're out and about with the family and doing all these things. And I get a call from a guy and, you know, answers say, hey, you know, how you doing? This is, this is so-and-so from, from ESPN. And all I'm thinking is, you know, he wants an interview. You know, he wants to talk about the game. You know, me being a former captain, playing in a national championship. And I had done a lot of that with various outlets leading up. So I'm like, hey, you know, what's up? And they're like, hey, we're out in California. Are you here? We'd love to meet up, talk about the game. And I was like, oh man, we're in San Francisco.

25:52
you know, maybe talk to you later, kind of blow them off. Yeah. Next day, you know, text me, hey, are you at the hotel? Which it was our hotel, but I wasn't there. It's like, hey, can you come to the lobby? We'd love to talk again. I'm like, no, I'm in Carmel. Sorry, see you later. You know, so I'm blowing this person off, thinking that it's a writer or thinking it's a TV person, whatever. And, you know, so then fast forward to Monday, the game. He goes, hey, I know you're going to the game. Can we meet up at the game somewhere? And so now I'm kind of like, this is weird. Like, why does this person keep texting me?

26:22
You know, it's so strange. And I was like, hey, can you get I'm kind of testing them, right? Yeah. Hey, can you get on the field? Like, let's meet on the field, seeing if they're really ESP or not. And they're like, oh, that's perfect. So I'm like, OK, this is legit. And, you know, so so I text them, they're saying, hey, we're wrapping up TV. I'll come over there in a second. So I'm like, OK, this is, you know, I don't know who you're because I can't. I've Googled this person's name. It's nowhere. I'm like, who the heck is this? And so then there I called them when they say they're walking over because I don't see anybody who I think I'm

26:52
and

27:05
And they come over, shake my hand, you know, act like we're, you know, best friends. All this stuff, very personable and starts asking me all these questions about the game. Like, what do I think is going to happen? Da da da. And they're not writing anything down. Because again, now I'm thinking they're a writer. They're not on TV. They're a writer, not writing anything down, not recording anything. And I'm getting kind of mad, right? Cause I'm like, I want to go tailgate with my family. What are we doing? And you're in a job interview and you don't even know it. Right. I'm killing me. I'm just ruining the interview. And, uh,

27:35
then this guy hits me with a very transitional matter of fact.

27:39
So there's gonna be some new opportunity coming with ESPN. We would like to fly you up to Bristol next week and see if you wanna be a part of the team. And bro, I blacked out. I didn't know. Did you fall down or did you? Yeah. What are you talking about? It totally, I don't even know what I said. I guess I said yes, cuz I was on the plane. And it was so crazy because I was so happy. We're in the rainbow, we're doing our thing and all this stuff not looking for anything. And-

28:09
Again, you know, God just puts something in your path. And, you know, my wife and I were like, this isn't real life. And I would have done it no matter what, but it obviously made a lot of sense for a lot of different reasons. And man, fast forward, this is my fifth football season and the relationships that I've created, the brothers that I work with, it's truly, I literally have to pinch myself at times to hope that I'm not about to wake up. But it's incredible, you know,

28:39
Yeah, man, if you if you watch football at all, you've probably caught Eric on the ACC Network You know with Mark Richt and Who else is on your regular show? You got the quarterback? Yeah, EJ Eddie Royal played at Virginia Tech. That's right. Is Kelsey Riggs. Yes. Yes. You guys are doing a great job. It's uh, I But it's it's interesting, you know the ACC Network just got started like when you were like at the ground up

29:08
The production quality's increased every year. Like it's like, it now feels kind of like a grown up show. I mean, you know, I mean, and I don't mean that disrespectfully. It's like everything takes time, but like, I think. It's true. But now like all the promos, everything seems a little tighter and better. And like the team, you guys are all rift off each other good. You got good chemistry, you know, it's fun. What's Mark like? Mark Rick like, you know.

29:37
He's the best. He really is. And you know, it is, I'm very grateful that we had our early years that I met him, you know, before.

29:47
He was announced and with Parkinson's and yeah, obviously that has taken a toll on him. But he's truly one of a kind as a human being. I mean, it has been such a great example for me as a young man, especially more at the first time I met him. Just how to love your wife man, how to care for her, your children, how to be a great dad and has been an unbelievable example for me. And I hope he knows that element all the time. I'm sure he does.

30:16
And then to develop as friends and to text and call and hang out outside of work with one another. And that goes for our whole team. It's truly amazing. But he's one of the best, man. Whitty is all get out, has created not just learn, has created more football. And when you talk about offenses than I'll ever even know, and is just truly one of a kind human being. So he makes us better, man. And it's a joy to work with him every Saturday.

30:46
of like the Wiley just he's over there sitting there and you're like yeah he's got kind of like but he still looks so young you know so like I know how old he is I know like but he's you know he's the Wiley veteran kind of sitting there like letting you guys coordinate the thoughts and he's got but he knows but because he's you know lived and breathed it for so long no but he's I've always I've never met him but I've just everybody lights up when they talk about him like in in that positive way just that he's a great guy.

31:16
And he's been a part of some great stuff. I mean, you talk about Florida stay back in the nineties. I mean, pretty much inventing the fast break, you know, offense for football. Uh, then Georgia, the things he was able to do and, you know, to bring Miami back to, to a respectable kind of point there. He's, he's done it all, man. He's a cool cat. Yes, exactly. And, uh, you'll understand this because you got them behind you, but I have to pause to give a little shout out to one of our sponsors called their lab. Hey,

31:43
Eric, I'm 46 baby. I can't, you know, I can't, I don't have that baby face like you anymore. I gotta, I have to have my products, you know? So Caldera lab, the premium men's skincare delivered right to your home. The official skincare provider of the rad cast and Ryan offered use rad Ryan, you'll get 20% off and you know, I'm trying to keep up with Eric and you know, removing my years. So, uh, yes, caldera lab.com.

32:13
Official skincare provider of me and follow me on social media. You'll learn more about Caldera lab or doing all kinds of fun things with partnership transitioning back, Eric. I mean, so now you got the podcast, you Kelly, you know, I know you talked about that being a little bit more of the entrepreneur or, you know, probably changing your path. You, you probably use all your skillsets that you learned on that job. You're talking about the marketing, the contracts and all that. Uh, talk about the podcast a little bit.

32:41
Oh man, it's been incredible. You know, and it's so funny, Kelly and I have known each other since we you know both started at Clemson. You know and again, me being a Hooper. You know I was kind of.

32:52
gravitating towards the basketball team at times, especially summer, you know, we're the only people up there. There's no, you know, it's just athletes on campus. And so you all kind of mixed together, especially that, that freshmen class, we're the same age. And, you know, I just loved to hoop. And so, you know, kind of met her through that. And, you know, our friendship really developed. And, you know, then it really, you know, took it to another level when we both kind of got done with Clemson and got into the media world. Her obviously starting at CCP

33:22
for Clemson and done a bunch of stuff there. And then when the network launched.

33:28
I called my guy right away. I mean, I don't even know this cat, but I call him and say, Hey, I know we need basketball people go get Kelly. Grandly like she's unbelievable play great shooter, all these things, meet all the qualifications. And, you know, obviously they did that and she's been a home run, but we've always wanted to do, or we always wanted to do something together, whether it was radio, uh, try to do some type of TV show, something, um, and then as we kind of were brainstorming that after our first full season and with ESPN, uh, the

33:58
COVID happens, you know, and we're just like, what the heck do we do? You know, what are we gonna figure out? How can we do this, this and that? And we're like, let's just do a podcast. And so we took about probably two to three months, man, of just planning. Like we knew we were gonna do it. How do we wanna lay it out? I need artwork, we need show title, all these different things so that when we start, you know, it looks like we've been doing this for a while. So that was October of 20. Now fast forward, you know, three, four football seasons, we're in 23 and-

34:28
You know, it's funny, I kind of told her, I don't know if we'll make money off this. I think that we can sell it, you know, kind of with my background. And, you know, we've funny, funny enough, we got a sponsor probably within three months, Sunshine Beverage, I'll never forget them. Our first ever guys there out of, you know, Winston-Salem, North Carolina. And that's when I was like, okay, this can be for real. Like we can do some cool stuff. If we continue to grow our celebrity on TV and we mash that together in something

34:58
and sell, there's something really cool here. To now, we have a multi-year deal with Ingalls. They've been an unbelievable sponsor. There's still room to add other things. We didn't, you know, totally exclusivity and you know, kind of map it out there. So that has been so much fun and to just see how it grows. I mean, I know, you know, all of this as well with what you're doing, but we went from, you know, doing stuff over Zoom, to doing stuff over Riverside, just audio, to then saying, well, why the heck aren't we tapping into this video element into that?

35:27
And then just now it's all about the growth and the guests and how can we magnify this thing even more with social media. So it's been a lot of fun to see it grow, man. Yeah, man. You guys are doing a great job. What would you call the overall topics? Like for you might listening that might want to check it out, what's the overall subject matter of the show? Yeah, I appreciate that. Really we started as trying to be kind of a subset.

35:55
of packer and Durham like we wanted to be you know kind of the the all ACC sports you know we're going to talk about all that from our perspective a little bit younger having played you know obviously at that level and so that's what we really that's what we started year one and what we found man is when we got to like

36:16
shoot February or March and if we did like one spring football episode it's spiked like crazy like the viewership the numbers were nuts and it's not just Clemson football this is you know all ACC football and so that summer man we had a big conversation and we're just like I look I know you play basketball I know you love basketball I think we should move this to just an ACC football podcast and funny funny she had no

36:46
And so that's what we do, man. College football with a primary focus on ACC football. During the year, we go three episodes a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, kind of in the spring season, off season, we do two a week, and that's all kind of NFL combine, spring ball, things of that are happening. And then really around May, May to July, we go one episode and it's a big guess. Like we're trying to have a heavy hitter, you know, a Kirk Herbstreet type, somebody in the sports area.

37:15
And those have been unbelievable too. The people that we've met and stories we've told there have been a lot of fun. Yeah, so anybody out there that follows ACC football or if you don't, you need to come on in, check out Eric and Kelly's show. You know, you'll love, if you love watching Eric and you're listening to him now, he is one of the nicest guys in the industry. And we...

37:41
we need to give them some love. So give them, go boost some numbers over there on Eric and Kelly's show. The, but hey man, you know, everybody, you know, talk about a little about like your professional journey and what you've done. And you know, like a lot of people here think about sports and working in sports and like what it takes to do that. You know, like, you know, I remember growing up thinking, oh, I love to work in sports and all that sort of thing. Like now that you do it for a profession and you know, you've, you're becoming a pro, you know, or a pro.

38:11
You know, like what's, what's been maybe like the biggest, aha transition like, or surprise in what it takes to, to be a pro in this arena. Like, what do you feel like has maybe been the most eye opening or, you know, something that people maybe not realize. How much film you have to watch? Like think about it like this, man. When I was a player, I watched one team every week.

38:41
And that's it. I focus on South Carolina and I'm gonna know everything that they do in this role. Especially it's a little bit easier for me because I'm a conference affiliated network. I have to watch all 14 schools each and every week and know what they're doing, why they're doing it. And then here's the kicker. If they're playing at a conference.

39:00
then I have to watch 28 schools. And so it's a lot of time, man. And I think the most interesting thing about that, that was the initial, like, OK, you got to hunker down. And really, if you want to be great, now I could be good and talk about ball and what we did back in the day and all these different things. But if I want to tell you what these teams are doing and what they're going to do or what I think they're going to do, that takes some real effort. But I'll tell you, the biggest kind of growing piece for me was going into year three.

39:30
kind of out of COVID, if we're out now, I don't know if we are or aren't. Yeah, it's hard to know. Time, yeah, right, time management thing of, I don't have to cram all of this right now at this time for two reasons. Number one, you're gonna burn out and you're just gonna be exhausted. Number two, things change so much with Transfer Portal, with all these different things to where, hey, if I crammed for the year in July, come September, these guys that I just studied,

40:00
not even be on the team. You know what I'm saying? So it's all this wasted work to where you've got to really, you've got to segment it out and you have to understand the ebbs and flows of the season and the changes that can be had. And you know, I think that that balance really started to come into my life and being able to find that going into the third season. And that's what people don't realize, like how much a pro like Eric and these guys are. I mean, he's an analyst and like, you know, and I think if I say that about stocks,

40:29
then I think you think like something else, but no, these guys are putting the work in. Like they don't just, you know, turn the camera on and Eric magically can like look at the film while he's talking and go, Oh yeah, that's what they're running. And that's that guy's name. And I know who that he just had an issue that his father was having. Like it takes work, man. I mean, you know, it doesn't just come. And I think that's where.

40:56
you know, you're really starting to shine as a pro with your analysis and hey man, we might have to have a part two, but I do before, I know we only got just a few minutes of your time left. Well, NIL man, I know we can't cover it in three minutes, but like, you know, is it good, bad, or indifferent? Is it the Wild West? I mean, what's your perspective? The way that it is right now and the way that there are different rules for different states, there's different rules for different institutions, there's different rules, just.

41:25
wherever you are regionally, I think it's terrible for where we are.

41:29
We either need, you know, kind of national federal rules or we need no rules. Like it can't be this weird middle ground that we are because number one, it's not fair. You know, different schools are held to different standards and have different resources and are allowed to do different things and you know, all these different things. And I think it's number one, how do you keep track of it? You know, it's crazy to do that. The lack of monitoring is baffling to me and really where it is right now, Ryan,

41:59
is not at all how it was presented in regards to this. This is what happens now. If you're ex player, you come to me, whether you're a recruit or a transfer, you come to me as the head coach and say, I need 50 grand to come here. Find it. That's the principle. The principle to me is I have the right to sell my name. I have the right to go fund when I can chase it. I can get signed with an agent. I can get it done. Not.

42:27
here's my hand, fill it up with money. You know, that's not the thing to me. Now, if you want to go out and sell and have conversations and hold camps and use your social media, that's amazing. But that's not the case, man. And it's baffling to me. I've heard horror stories on both sides, from the player that's done all this stuff with their social media and hasn't gotten paid. And also from the companies that have paid these players upfront. And when it comes time for content or it comes times to activation, players know where to be found.

42:57
right now. Obviously the haves and have nots are just even furthering away from each other. I hope that we can get some type of federal help here just to play everybody to play by the same rules. That's all I want. That's all I think that's fair for everybody. We'll see if that happens. We'll see if it happens.

43:16
Well said. You know, it's, it's complicated, but I don't think it has to be quite the wild rod rest and complicated as it is. I think it could be simplified. So hopefully we get there. Eric, where can everybody keep up? I mean, all they had just turned to the ACC network. They're going to see your grill right there shining, going, saying something smart, saying something funny. But, uh, let's work. Everybody keep up with you, brother.

43:40
Yeah, I appreciate you man anywhere on social media man, Instagram, Twitter, Eric McLean right there and then the podcast Graham Lick and McLean.

43:47
wherever we prefer YouTube, get those numbers up baby, but it's wherever you can find it. You just want to listen to it in the car on Apple podcasts, you know, Spotify, all those things. And of course ESPN and ACC network. We have a good time, man. And I appreciate you. This was so much fun, man. We gotta do it again. I know. I think we're gonna have to have like a quarterly Mac lane. You know, maybe we'll just, we'll make it, whatever it is. Like we'll talk football, we'll talk, you know, whatever the heck's happened. Being a dad, you got a beautiful daughter. And

44:17
Appreciate you from coming on.

44:20
Hey guys, you know where to find us, theradcast.com. Search for Eric McLean. You'll find all the holiday clips today. We'll have links to the McLean podcast, the Graham McLean podcast, all of Eric's stuff, and you know, find me, I'm at Ryan Alford, that blue checkmark way before you could buy it.

44:37
We'll see you next time on the Radcast.