Why Grit Is More Important Than Talent: Eric Mac Lain’s Journey From Football To Business

You're listening to the Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast. Ryan offered your host to your number one business and marketing show on Apple Podcast. We appreciate that. We're a winner. However, you're listening. We save its radical. We cover it. And any time I get friends and anyone associated with Clemson on the show because they're kicking ass and taking names, I get even more excited. I got my good friend Eric McLean. He's a college football analyst with ESPN, the ACC network. And of course, the co-host of the Grammar and McLean podcast. What's up, Eric? Brother, listen, here's the deal. When I got the message to come on this show, I knew I'd made it.

First take ESPN college game day, throw all that to the side. This is where I wanted to be, brother. So jacked up to be with you today. I appreciate you having me and excited to jump into a bunch of different things. Hey man, it's my pleasure. And I appreciate that. And at the end of the day, it's been fun watching your growth on TV, on the show with Kelly, you know, days at CCP and, you know, bitch. But look at days, it did at Clemson, you know, you'd be at a bigger crew. And I watched your whole career unfold there. You know, you were the rock in some of the glory days at Clemson. We've talked about that. We won't hone in too hard. We have a little bit of struggle this year.

whole life, I grew up wanting to be a basketball guy. You know, it's just, it was my first love, my true love and just had such a knack for the sport. My shooter, you know, I love to flick that thing and, you know, just stay on the court. I mean, for hours, I mean, my brother and friends and family members, that's all we would do growing up. Don't don't come home till the lights are off, you know, the sun goes down because we're out shooting hoops. And you know, it was funny in a world now where I feel like everybody is so specialized, like you kind of pick, you know, that choice was kind of made for me because I always had aspirations to try to make it not just to college, which is obviously a big deal and to

have your school paid for and the doors of that all open, but, you know, professionally. I just always felt like that was my thing. I was going to do that. I thought it would be the NBA and, you know, it was funny in high school. I stopped growing this way and started going out and started, you know, getting muscle and these type of things. So I was like, yeah, basketball, this might be the end of the road. You know, varsity basketball might be the top for me. And, you know, so it was funny, that decision kind of made and then you really hone in, you know, on your sport and obviously, you know, that's the future. So you give it so much attention and love and dedication.

And, you know, for me, that was football. So, you know, really my junior year of high school is when we started cranking that way up. But I do have to go back a couple of years because I grew up a Tennessee fan, volunteers, any balls listening, that's where I always wanted to go. Peyton Manning, Coach Fulmer, Eric Berry, all these guys, and most of my family went to Tennessee. So it was really normal for me to want to do that and actually received a scholarship and committed as a ninth grader in high school to Tennessee to play football fast forward Philadelphia. Fulmer gets fired fast forward, even more lane kiffin comes in and it just was such a culture shock. It was so different that I just I didn't want any part of it and it broke my heart because

that's where I want to go my whole life. Run out of the tee, be a Knoxville, do all these things. And it just so happens, talk about relationships and communicating all these different things in the business world that are so applicable. I got a crash course of that as a 15-year-old kid because one of the coaches that was on staff to Tennessee, that known for a long time, got hired by Clemson. My coach, Davos Swinney, his name is Dan Brooks, was one of the best defensive line coaches ever. And so after I decommitted, he hits me up and he says, hey, Big Mac, it's Dan, it's Coach Brooks, and I'm at Clemson now, I was like, Coach, what's up, this is all I hadn't heard from.

Every respectful did not hit me up until after I had decommitted. And he's like, oh, I'm at Clemson, I'm like, Clemson, I legitimately Ryan had no clue what or where Clemson was. Had zero clue. I grew up in SEC country. My grandmother and her side of the family went to Alabama, her husband and my mom and all of them went to Tennessee. Oh, my God. I did not know that about your, I didn't remember that. Maybe we had that discussion, but because you always seem like a Clemson guy. You know what I first met you. I'm like, this guy's this is a Clemson man right here, quick, quick, quick, and you know, so he's telling me that he's like, oh, come, come check it out.

And I'm like, where is it? What do you, you know, all these different things? He's like, well, we're in South Carolina. We're in the ACC. And I said, whoa, no, heck no, like I'm not doing that. And which is so comical now, looking back at it all. And you know, so finally, fast forward a year almost, he hits me up again. He says, just come by and visit. I think you'll like, you know, what you see. So now I'm going into my senior year, you know, kind of the end of my junior year. And we do it. We go and see it. And, you know, we're coming off the highway 85 on 19 B right there. We're seeing the, the Paul Perenz, the sun settings, you know, it's purple and orange.

I'm all right. Oh, this is great. This is perfect. Yeah. And, you know, it's just this dream situation. Well, all the other schools that I had been to are in these big cities. You know, it's when you look at, you know, like Columbus and Knoxville and Auburn's pretty similar. But, you know, all these different schools, there's, there's these big cities kind of around there. Clemson, it's farm, it's farm town, you know, I'm saying in the little towns. And so we're passing like this sunflower patch right on perimeter. And we're looking at the Tom Tom, the GPS, whatever. And you know, it says, you're a minute away. I'm like, there is nothing. Where is a stadium about to come out of here? And I'm getting, I'm just talking about it right now, but, you know, when you make

that turn on perimeter and then death Valley just rips out of those trees, man. And I'm just like, whoa, this is cool. Like this is nuts. And it obviously a big stadium. And then I meet Coach Schweeney. And I mean, you talk about a no name guy. Never been a coordinator was, was a head coach for, for maybe a half the season and was in the midst of a losing season, something of that nature. And so had no like no type of, oh my God, that's dabbo type thing yet. And but when I met him and in the passion, the enthusiasm, the genuine love for his players in the game of football, I was like, this is different, you know, this is different from anything I had ever seen before.

And it was so infectious, man, that literally in a two day span, I was like, I'll do anything for that guy. Like I want to play for him right now. And so it was, it's so comical to me that, you know, we think that we have our plan and, you know, God kind of has his plan. And I never even knew where this place was, man. And in an instant, I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life there. And it was so powerful just to have that kind of conviction and to know that guy and then to see where it grew and went on. So, you know, the rest is kind of history with that. But it's, it's a wild story how I even got to start, you know, at Clemson University.

go with it. Yeah. Well, what was all right, let's, you know, we'll close out the Clemson years, but what's like one of the most memorable games, memorable moments, you know, what sticks in your head? I mean, I know I'm sure there's a lot of different things, but like is there like a moment, a game or something that just when you have, when you get asked this question now, it like pops to the top. There's two. There are two. And one is obviously that national championship game, you know, there's in Alabama, just because we got there, right? We got to the mountain top. And it was something that, you know, I think every little kid dreams about is they're running around playing in their backyard of playing in a national championship, winning

it, hopefully. And, you know, for us just to do what we did at Clemson and to get to that mountain, to change the culture and what we had done the previous years to get there was just special. And, you know, something that, you know, we always thought was possible. That's why, you know, my 2011 class came there and really was kind of that building block. A lot of those guys, what we were able to do on top of who Alabama was and what they were doing. I mean, you're talking about peak dominance. I mean, these guys had just been wrecking people, winning all these national championships. And we went into the game that's heavy underdogs. And I remember reading and hearing all the talk about how our offensive line was going

to get just destroyed. And of course, being an offensive line, and you take that very personal and, you know, we dominated it. And I just knew that, you know, going into the game, it was like, Brian, if I make one mistake, even us, if I stepped the wrong way, I'm going to get abused by this guy. Like, I'm going to get absolutely ruined. So it just made you play so much better. I think that was my best game by far, too, just kind of all that on the line there. And, you know, just just being there in the last one ever was truly amazing. On a more positive note, my other favorite is that Notre Dame game, a pretty personal game for me. That's where my father is from up there.

He grew up a Golden Domer, love Notre Dame, and, you know, a lot of our family members, either love them or hate them that are up there because it's kind of 50, 50. And so once I knew they were on the schedule, and it was my senior year, I was like, this is going to be a party. B-Y-O-G, baby. Was that B-Y-O-G? Okay. It's all of it. It's all of it. And, you know, the hurricane, everything that had, you know, to do with, I mean, it was it. South Carolina was in a state of emergency. Yeah. When he Haley said Clemson's playing ball. All right. I was sitting in the stands. I've never been more wet in my entire life. I didn't get up the entire time.

I think I thought about it after I was like, I was in elation and happy, but anyone I've been soaked for four hours or five hours, like, and if we had lost, wow, this would really have stuck like to sat in this rain. But yeah, that's what a fan does. You know, it's funny about sitting there. You talk about being there for five hours. We knew like all day leading up to it that it was going to be bad, like raining and horrible and the state of emergency announcement, all these things. So we fully expected to come around that stadium and it'd be like half full. And brother, that was even more people there. And I think the rain, just like juice, y'all up. That was one of the craziest loud games I'd ever been a part of.

You know, your bad ass at Clemson, you set up. You set the table for the, you know, the National Title or 2016. Now, I mean, you're a big dog. You're at ACC Network, on TV. I got your own podcast. I'm like, my boy, my boy's like, don't grow into a piece of making it. So what's that been like, man, what's the professional journey been like kind of getting to this point? Yeah. No, it was crazy, man, because I talk about, you know, those pro aspirations and something that really, you know, my whole career, I still thought would happen. You know, even changing positions and playing a, playing a position I'd never played in my life and then thinking, you know, okay, you're going to go to the NFL and do this.

I never had a doubt that I would and, you know, kind of make that next step. But like I said, there are different plans that happen. And so, you know, right after I start training and, you know, go and do all the different things and don't get picked up in the draft, which was brutal. I don't know if you've ever talked to anybody that has never been drafted. Yeah. But you get your whole family there. You're at the house. People are, and yeah, I'm here and stuff like I'm thinking it's going to happen. And, you know, you got everybody there, man. And there is nothing more like embarrassing, saddening, make you angry, like all these different things, because that phone don't ring and all those people are just like, now, you know,

your 50 breaths friends over and it's like, you would think they could throw you a bone. Like, yeah. Like every team could at least go, you know, like you could go, am I gonna, it, well, especially if you're semi-throwed, it's not like, it shouldn't be that much intel at that point. I wouldn't think. Like, and I, like, you signed some agreement that you won't tell anyone so they don't, right? And so like, so then you don't like over-playin' for it, could they do that? I was asked to know. What do you like to know? But you know, it's crazy is we actually got a, I got a call from the Cowboys in the fifth round. They were probably five, six picks away, which would have been a great spot.

I mean, there's a lot of money in the fifth round and Dallas would have been amazing. And I get a call from, I believe it was the offensive line coach has been, you know, suppressed out of my memory now, and he calls, he says, hey man, we love you. You know, if we take an offensive lineman here, you're the guy. And when I'm freaking out, I'm like, this is amazing. And then the call never comes. They take like a corner back and the rest of the draft, you know, I maybe had one thing in the seventh. And then that was it, and you're just like, what happened? Because it's even more awkward because a lot of those guys, you know, some people kind of like what you said, they go into it and have these kind of free agent things already

signed. I did. So you're talking about a full 24 hours of silence. And I'm just like, it's just crazy. Like do I just move on? Like is this, is this it? This is over. And, you know, so the next day I hear from the Panthers, you know, we do like the, the many camp thing, go up there and I'm excited, right? Because it's right here, hometown, my, my wife, that's like her favorite team and her family's favorite teams. This is awesome. This is going to be a cool, you know, kind of story to tell. Man, I get up there and they had drafted a first round defensive and defensive tackle kind of guy. And in the first, spend a lot of money on them. I go up there and do that.

I killed it. Like I'm just murdering one on one pass rush all these different drills. I'm like, I'm feeling great. And you know, I'm thinking clearly making this team and they kind of have a meeting with a lot of guys in there and they say, Hey, you know, we're so sorry. The way the numbers are, you know, we've got to cut you, but we want you guys to say healthy. And I'm looking around like no way like this is, there's nothing else I could have done. There's no way I could have done better. And you know, so then I have kind of a one on one meeting with the GM and the offensive line coach. And they're like, Hey, man, you know, we really like you.

So like, let me tell you this though, this, I'll take it a step further, guys that I'm covering right now in my job. I see them at the next level, I'm like, bro, how did I not make this is crazy? So they gave you, but they gave you, but they gave you nothing like no one to this day is really giving you like, okay, yeah, just a timing thing. So I reversed it on them though, because, you know, I'm about to get married. I'm not number one, just sitting around not being paid in number two. I'm not going to jump all across the country on some practice squad hoping and praying something happened. Yeah. So I kind of flipped it on and said, here's the deal.

I'll sign right now and this will be great or I'm just done. And they were shocked, man, they're like, what are you talking about in a way? I said, yeah, that's that's kind of how it is. And they said, well, we're sorry. So I walked out of that thing, man, and I called my wife first and, you know, she's devastated because obviously that's what we've done. You know, my whole life, her whole life too, her dad grew up playing football, her brother place football. So our lives have been football. And so it obviously very sad for me. And then just kind of the what's next thing. The next call is to my parents. And then the third one is to Graham Neff at Clemson and I kind of say, hey, I just got

on and off the field in building relationships, being good at speaking with people and, you know, just overall, I don't know, acumen for how to be a business person. And I think that that superseded any ability on the field. So I think that set you up and you knew that on some level. And maybe that and just pride and stubbornness combined, who knows, we all know who that is. I got the t-shirts. So, you know, the lashings and everything else to go with it, but, uh, I mean, so, uh, but no other, to other teams ever call, they didn't ever, they never did it. One team called in September and, uh, it was actually the Tennessee Titans, which would have been great too, being from Tennessee.

And, uh, yeah, I told them, I told them, I'm done. And they were just a shock. Do they're like, are you kidding me? I said, yeah, just take me off the list, man, it's okay. It's crazy. But, you know, you know, I think you knew, you know, maybe you wanted to do what you're doing. You knew there was a, I will say, I will say there was, um, maybe not right in that moment, but maybe a week or so later. There was almost a freedom of it, you know, because that's how you had been identified, how I had been identified my whole, oh, it's a football. This is Eric the football player, you know, and when that, there was something about that chapter being closed, um, and not, you know, just identifying like that, which I never

did personally, because there's so much more to life, but, you know, not having that, uh, but then it is, you know, funny, it, the game will always pull you back. You're always right back in it somewhere or another. But now, you know, now you're there. So what, uh, where did we go from there and, and what got you all the way to today? Yeah. You know, crazy, uh, so, so did the graduate, you know, assistantship with, with Clemson was kind of with football and basketball and baseball with a bunch of different things there. So having that even, I was on that team, just in a different capacity, so I did that for about nine months and then a, a new venture was coming to Clemson, uh, and JMI sports.

I'm not sure if you ever ran across with, with those guys, so I sold for them, um, for really like two and a half years or so maybe, um, which was, you know, it was funny at the time, Graham, or excuse me, uh, Dan Radacovitch called me in his office and just was like, Hey, uh, you know, this is happening. We think it would be a really good kind of foundational piece for you, uh, Xenu, I wanted to go into college athletics from the administrative route. Uh, we think we, you should take it. It's a sales role, blah, blah, blah. You kind of see a different vantage point that a lot of people don't with these multi media rights. And so at the time, I was just like, um, maybe, and he's like, no, I really think you

should do it. Uh, so I go and do it kind of hesitantly. And man, that, that has been one of the biggest blessings of my life because the foundational, it was basically another grad school, right, a real life degree where I'm learning how to sell. I'm learning marketing, I'm learning law and contracts and how to just sit and have a meeting, how to set up a meeting, you know, with somebody and, and how to cold call like all these attributes that, you know, we teach and coach, you know, when you're in school, but, you know, to have this real life learning, uh, for, for two years and some change has been an unbelievable foundation for me that I still use to this day, uh, with the podcast and you see this

sponsor right behind me with Ingalls and, you know, all these different things that I never would have ever thought about taking that route if it wasn't placed, you know, kind of in my way there. So I'm forever grateful for that time and, you know, it's such a fun piece that I can pull from and, and learnings and different things that we did there. So did that for about two years in Greenville and then our, uh, national championship season in 18 where we're just killing everybody, kicking everybody's tail, we're out in California uh, for the natty and, you know, we went a couple of days early as a family and we're doing all these different things, um, and kind of within that, uh, I had been doing the fifth

quarter show for Clemson, which is a radio show after the game 90 minutes. You know, you're talking about all different kinds of things. So I kind of dipped back into, you know, a little bit of media there on top of my sales stuff. So I was out there for that as well, but also just as a fan. So, you know, we're out and about with the family and doing all these things and I get a call from a guy and, uh, you know, answer, say, Hey, you know, how you doing this is, this is so and so from, from ESPN and all I'm thinking is, you know, he wants an interview. You know, he wants to talk to the game, you know, maybe in a former captain playing in

a national championship and I had done a lot of that, uh, with various outlets leading up. And they're like, Hey, we're out in California. Are you here? We'd love to meet up, talk about the game. And I was like, Oh, man, we're in San Francisco, you know, maybe talk to you later. Kind of blow him off. Next day, you know, text me, Hey, are you at the hotel? Which it was our hotel, but I wasn't there. It's like, Hey, can you, can you come to the lobby? We'd love to talk again. I'm like, no, I'm in Carmel. So see you later, you know, I'm blowing this person off, thinking that it's a writer or thinking it's a TV person, whatever. And, you know, so then fast forward to Monday, the game, he goes, Hey, I know

you're going to the game. Can we meet up at the game somewhere? And so now I'm kind of like, this is weird. Like, why is this person keep texting? You know, it's so strange. And I was like, Hey, can you get, I'm kind of testing them, right? Yeah. Like, Hey, can you get on the field? Like, let's meet on the field, seeing if they're really ESPN or not. And they're like, Oh, that's perfect. I'm like, OK, this is legit. And, you know, so I text them, they're saying, Hey, we're wrapping up TV. I'll come over there in a second. So I'm like, OK, this is, you know, I don't know who you're, because I can't, I've Googled this person's name. It's nowhere. I'm like, what the heck is that?

And so then they're, I called them when they say they're walking over, because I don't see anybody who I think I'm looking for. And I see a person answer their phone. He's in like khaki pants, an untucked polo of, of Vest on. And I'm like, there is no way this person was just on TV. Like, what is happening? This is so weird. And they come over, shake my hand. You know, act like we're, you know, best friends, all this stuff. Very personable and starts asking me all these questions about the game. Like, what do I think is going to happen? And they're not writing anything down, because again, now I'm thinking they're a writer. They're not on TV. They're a writer, not writing anything down, not recording anything.

Did you fall down? Did you? Like, what are you talking about? And totally, I don't even know what I said. I guess I said yes, because I was on the plane. And it was so crazy. Because I was so happy. You know, we're a rainbow. We're doing our thing and all this stuff, not looking for anything. And again, you know, God just puts something in your path. And, you know, my wife and I were like, this isn't real life. And I would have done it no matter what. But it obviously made a lot of sense for a lot of different reasons. And man, fast forward, this is my fifth football season. And the relationships that I've created, the brothers that I work with, it's, it's truly,

I mean, that, you know, I mean, and I don't mean that disrespectfully. It's like everything takes time. But like, I think, but it's, but now like all the promos, everything seems a little tighter. And better and like the team, you guys are all rift off each other good. You got good chemistry, you know, it's fun. What's, what's Mark, like, Mark Rick, like, you know, he's the best. He really is. And you know, it's, it is, I'm very grateful that we had our early years that I met him, you know, before he was announced and with Parkinson's and yeah, obviously that has taken a toll on him. But he's truly one of a kind as a human being. I mean, it has been such a great example for me as a young man, especially more at the first time I met him.

Just how to love your wife, man, how to, you know, care for her, your children, how to be a great dad. And, you know, it has been an unbelievable example, you know, for me. And I hope he knows that. Tell him it all the time. I'm sure he does. And then to develop, you know, as friends and to, you know, text and call and, you know, hang out outside of work, you know, with one another and that goes for our whole team. It's truly amazing. But he's one of the best, man. Whitty has all get out has created not just learn has created more football. And when you talk about offenses, then I'll ever even know and is just truly one of a kind human being.

And he's been a part of some great stuff. I mean, you talk about Florida, stay back in the 90s. I mean, pretty much inventing the fast break, you know, offense for football. Then Georgia, the things he was able to do and, you know, to bring Miami back to it to a respectable kind of point there. He's, he's done it all, man. He's a cool cat. Yes, exactly. And you'll understand this because you got them behind you. But I have to pause to give a little shout out to one of our sponsors called their lab. Hey, Eric, I'm 46, baby, I can't, you know, I, I don't have that baby face like you anymore. I got to, I have to have my products, you know? So called their lab, the premium men's skincare delivered right to your home.

Oh, man, it's been incredible, um, you know, and it's so funny. Kelly and I have known each other since we, you know, both started at Clemson, you know, and again, me being a hooper, you know, I was kind of gravitating towards the basketball team at times, especially summer. You know, we're the only people up there. There's no, uh, you know, it's just athletes on campus. And so you all kind of mixed together, especially that freshman class, we're the same age. And, uh, you know, I just love to hoop. And so, you know, kind of met her through that and your friendship really developed. And, you know, then it, it really, uh, you know, took it to another level when we both kind of got done

with Clemson and got into the media world. Um, her obviously starting at CCP had written, you know, for Clemson and done a bunch of stuff there. And then when the network launched, um, I called my guy right, I mean, I don't even know this cat, but I call him and say, Hey, I know we need basketball people. Go get Kelly, like, like she's unbelievable, play great shooter, all these things, meet all the qualifications and, you know, obviously they did that and she's been a home run. But we've always wanted to do, or we always wanted to do something together, whether, whether it was radio, uh, try to do some type of TV show, something. Um, and then as we kind of were brainstorming that after our, our first full season with ESPN,

uh, the world shuts down, COVID happens, uh, you know, and, and we're just like, what the heck do we do? Uh, you know, what are, what are we going to figure out? How can we do this, this and that? And, uh, we're like, let's just do a podcast. And so we took about probably two to three months, man, of just planning. Like we knew we were going to do it. How do we want to lay it out? I need artwork. We need show title, all these different things so that when we start, you know, it looks like we've been doing this for a while. So that was October of 20, uh, now fast forward, you know, three, four football seasons. We're in 23 and, you know, it's funny.

I kind of told her, I don't know if we'll make money off this. Um, I think that we can sell it, you know, kind of with my background and, you know, we funny, funny enough, we got a sponsor probably within three months, sunshine beverage. I'll never forget them. Uh, our first ever guys there out of, uh, you know, Winston Salem, North Carolina. And that's when I was like, okay, this can be for me. Like we can do some cool stuff. If we continue to grow our celebrity on TV and we mash that together and something that we can control and sell, there's something really cool here. To now we have a multi year deal with, with angles. They've been an unbelievable sponsor. They're still room to add other things.

We, we didn't, you know, totally exclusive, exclusivity and, you know, kind of map it out there. So that has been so much fun and to just see how it grows. I mean, I know you know all of this as well with what you're doing. But we went from, you know, doing stuff over zoom to doing stuff over riverside, just audio to then saying, well, why the heck aren't we tapping into this video element, uh, into that? And then just now it's, it's all about the growth and the guests and how can we, you know, magnify this thing even more with social media? So it's been a lot of fun to see it grow, man. Yeah, man, you guys are doing a great job. What, what, what would you call the overall topics?

Like, you know, for me, my listening that might want to check it out. Like what do you got? What's the overall subject matter of the show? Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, really we started as trying to be kind of a subset of Packer and Durham. Like we wanted to be, you know, kind of the, the all ACC sports. You know, we're going to talk about all that from our perspective, a little bit younger, having played, you know, obviously at that level. And so that's what we really, that's what we started year one. And what we found, man, is when we got to like, uh, shoot February or March. And if we did like one spring football episode, it's spiked like crazy. Like the viewership, the numbers were nuts.

And it's not just Clemson football. This is, you know, all ACC football. And so that summer, man, we had a big conversation and we're just like, I, look, I know you play basketball, I know you love basketball. I think we should move this to just an ACC football podcast. And funny, funny, you know, as it takes, she's like, I agree. I mean, I see these numbers too. And so that's what we do, man, college football, uh, with, with a primary focus on ACC football. Uh, during the year, we go three episodes a week Monday, Wednesday, Friday, kind of in the, the spring season off season, we do two a week. And that's all kind of NFL combine, spring ball, things that that are happening. And then really, really around May, uh, May to, to July, we go one episode.

Like think about it like this, man, when I was a player, I watched one team every week and that's it. You know, I focus on South Carolina and I'm going to know everything that they do in this role, uh, especially it's a little bit easier for me because I'm, I'm a conference affiliated network. I have to watch all 14 schools each and every week and know what they're doing. Why they're doing it and then here's the kicker. If they're playing out of conference, then I have to watch 28 schools. And so it's just, it's a lot of time, man. And I think the, I think the most interesting thing about that, that was the initial like, okay, you got to hunker down and really, you know, if you want to be

great, you know, I can, I can be good and talk about ball and, you know, what we did back in the day, all these different things. But if I want to tell you what these teams are doing and what they're going to do or what I think they're going to do, uh, that takes some real effort. But I'll tell you, the biggest kind of growing piece for me was going into year three, coming kind of out of COVID if we're, if we're out now, I don't know if we are aren't, yeah, you know, time man, yeah, right. Time management thing of I don't have to cram all of this right now at this time for two reasons. Number one, you're going to burn out and you're just going to be exhausted.

Well, in IL, man, I know we can't cover it in three minutes. But like, you know, is it good, bad and different? Is it the Wild West? I mean, what's your perspective? The way that it is right now and the way that there are different rules for different states, there's different rules for different institutions, there's different rules, just wherever you are regionally. I think it's terrible for where we are. Yeah, we either need, you know, kind of national federal rules or we need no rules like it can't be this weird middle ground that we are. Because number one, it's not fair. You know, different schools are held to different standards and have different resources and are allowed to do different things. And you know, all these different things that I think it's number one,

how do you keep track of it? You know, it's crazy to do that. The lack of monitoring is baffling to me. And really where it is right now, Ryan, is not at all how it was presented in regards to this, this is what happens now. If you're an ex-player, you come to me, whether you're a recruit or a transfer, you come to me as the head coach and say, I need 50 grand to come here.

The principle, the principle to me is, I have the right to sell my name. I have the right to go fund when I can chase it, I can sign with an agent, I can get it done. Not, here's my hand, fill it up with money. Yeah, that's not the thing to me. Now, if you want to go out and sell and have conversations and hold camps and use your social media, that's amazing. But that's not the case, man. And it's baffling to me. I've heard horror stories on both sides from the player that's done all this stuff with their social media and hasn't gotten paid and also from the companies that have paid these players up front. And when it comes time for content, or it comes times to activation,

saying something funny. But let's, where can everybody keep up with your brother? Yeah, I appreciate you, man. Anywhere on social media, man, Instagram, Twitter, Eric McLean right there. And then the podcast, Gramlick and McLean, wherever we prefer you to get those numbers up, baby, but it's, it's wherever you can find it. You just want to listen to it in the car and Apple podcasts, you know, Spotify, all those things. And of course, ESPN and ACC network. We have a good time, man. And I appreciate you. This was so much fun, man. We did it again. I know I think we have to have like a quarterly Mac Lane, you know, maybe we'll just, we'll make it whatever it is. Like I will talk football, we'll talk, you know, whatever the heck's happened.

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