00:00
You're listening to The Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast. If it's radical, we cover it.

00:13
Here's your host, Ryan Alford. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast. You know, we say if it's radical, we cover it. And you know what? As the host, I get to choose whoever I want, whatever I want. When someone radical hits my radar and I know it's gonna bring value to our audience, we just tee it up. And Dr. Amy Shaw is that. What's up, Dr. Shaw? How are you? Thanks for having me. That's a great intro.

00:43
Hey, I'm so effing hungry. You know, on the Radcast, you are allowed to curse if you curse. So I am so fucking hungry. It's immediately caught my attention because you know what? As a big guy, I'm always effing hungry. And, uh, but then I'm like, okay, I went down the rabbit, the Amy Shaw Instagram rabbit hole and was like, I like what I'm hearing here. And, uh, so I'm just pumped that you're on. I won't look in business. It's.

01:13
Uber important that we're healthy and we're happy and food plays such an important role in all of that. I think it's important and I think there's a lot to learn and I also think you can share a lot with how you've kind of grown your personal brand. So there's a lot of angles here that I'm excited to get underneath.

01:30
Business and food have so much close relationship because the dopamine that you make in your body is made in your gut. There it is. Is that why I'm always happy sometimes when I eat but it's only it's temporary? It's temporary. Exactly. But it can give you the motivation to do something big depending on what you're eating. That's right. Well,

01:59
Let's let's start from the from the beginning. Dr. Shaw, let's talk. Let's give everyone a little bit of your background leading up to your book and, you know, kind of your mantras. Food is mood. Let's let's give everybody a little bit of the Dr. Shaw story.

02:17
I came to the US when I was five years old with my family. And everyone in my family, including my dad and my grandmother were diagnosed with type two diabetes in their thirties. And at the time it was devastating because they knew they weren't supposed to eat sugar and desserts, but they didn't know how to control the cravings. And I didn't understand how food creates mood, disease.

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desires, motivation. And when I learned how much it plays a part in that, I had to talk more about it.

02:56
Where did your passion, you know, it obviously originated with that and the power of food, but like, did all of that originate in you following the doctor path? I mean, you've got an interesting story, you know, you know, being, having, you know, born and raised in the US, but having, you know, a different perspective growing up. Like, did all of that fuel your energy in becoming a doctor?

03:27
Yeah, you know, Ryan, I think about it now. And I think about dopamine. So dopamine that's created in the gut mostly, it motivates you to do something bigger or to go for a goal. And so all of us in business and medicine and rely on dopamine. And when...

03:51
you eat the right foods, you take care of your mind, you take care of your body, you want to do bigger and more things. So I think that for me, I just wanted to do something bigger. I wanted to contribute something more in my line of interest.

04:09
And that's why I chose the medical path. Cause I thought, I know food affects our body, but how does it do that? And how could we change that to optimize our brains? That's kind of what my passion is. What's the, what was the belief behind the, I'm so effing hungry. Just because we're always all like that insight that we're always all hungry, but we don't know why.

04:37
We live in this world where we're tired and hungry. And it's because our gut bacteria are tired and hungry. And I don't think most people realize a connection.

04:50
Like your gut bacteria are living inside of you and helping you make decisions every single day. And if you keep them hungry and you keep them sad, they're going to make decisions in that way. And they literally rule our minds. So I think I wanted to shed light on that. I wanted people to know like, hey, you can make yourself happier. You can make yourself healthier, more satisfied, control your cravings.

05:20
If you can understand this. So talk to me about some of the principles in the book, then, you know. So how do we what's the obviously we're going to all for everyone listening. We're talking to Dr. Amy Shaw, author of I'm So Fing Hungry. We're going to we'll have links to the book and everything else for everyone to go read the full journey and how to stop being so fucking hungry. But but Dr. Shaw, what is what are some of the principles in the book at a high level that?

05:49
that you've uncovered and that are part of the story.

05:55
Number one, the way we eat and live today is making our gut bacteria sad and hungry. The default is depression, anxiety, cravings, hunger. Because the food that we eat is not real food, it's food like substances, and that does not feed gut bacteria. So anything that is ultra processed is not food for the gut bacteria.

06:26
And so there are people who eat zero vegetables, very little fruit and little to no fiber. And that's the majority of the American population. And then we wonder why we're so inflamed, we're so sad and we're so hungry all the time. So first things first, I tell people to recognize what an ultra processed food is so you can start eating less of it.

06:55
An ultra processed food is any food that you could not recreate in your kitchen or any kitchen. Doritos. Damn it. Oreos. These are things that you couldn't make a homemade version. And that's the stuff that we need to start to recognize.

07:24
tell our families, our friends, our colleagues, and start to reduce that. So instead of a Dorito, maybe you have a homemade corn tortilla with salsa.

07:39
It's not huge. It's not like you're just going to be eating salads or something. So that's number one. It's starting to realize and replacing. And number two is realizing the power of the sun. We are sunflowers. Our gut bacteria need sun. The dopamine and the serotonin that our gut bacteria make is 10 to 100 times stronger than our own.

08:09
So it literally dictates our behavior. When we make them happy, when we exercise, when we get sunlight, they produce more dopamine and serotonin. And then we feel happier, more motivated. And so that's kind of the cycle.

08:28
So exercise, sunlight, fasting, and eating healthy foods are some of the basic things you could do to increase your motivation, your happiness, and feel more satisfied. How does, so talk to me, I'm glad you brought up the fasting. We're talking to Fasting MD on Instagram. No, she doesn't, she doesn't just talk about it. She makes her Instagram handle, but fasting, intermittent fasting.

08:55
There seems like there's 17 stages or types of fasting now. Is there a certain one that Dr. Shaw pushes, believes in, works the best? Fasting is like exercise. There's so many different types. It depends on what you prefer, what your goals are. But everybody should be doing this one basic type. And that's circadian fasting.

09:26
That means that when the sun goes down, you curb or stop your eating. So that you're not eating two to three hours before bed, and then going to bed. And then when you wake up, you're not just rolling out of bed and having your first pop chart. Having a 12 to 14 to 15 hour fast is something that you could easily do and will upgrade your health.

09:51
It's like the equivalent of walking. Everybody should be doing it. The health benefits are incredible.

10:03
I struggle with the eating after dark thing. I think it's a man. It's a man thing. I don't know, like snack. I'm a snacker. Like I can like eat pretty healthy all day. But something happens like Ryan's like inner force goes hungry. It like nine forty five. I'm like reaching for the Doritos or whatever. And I'm pretty healthy. I work out like I'm probably healthier than most people. But man, I am a snacker.

10:34
That's the problem. Because most people fast the opposite way. Because it's easier, right? Like, it's easier just to keep eating until you go to bed, and then fast all morning. Yeah. But ideally, you want to eat the most when the sun is out, and the least late at night. But late at and late at night eating never healthy eating.

11:02
It's not like you're eating yogurt and salad. Never. Yeah, so that I find when I work with people one on one, that's the one change that changes everything. Even if you could stop eating one hour earlier than you usually do, you're gonna see benefits. The processed food thing is huge too. I mean, having kids, it's like, God, I mean, you know it's bad for them, but.

11:29
Why they make it so hard to eat healthy and so easy to eat bad. Like I know that's an excuse, but it truly. Yeah. It is right. I literally talk about in my book, how it's not really our fault because we live in this world where the grocery stores are 75% ultra processed. So your choices are very limited if you're trying not to do ultra processed food. Yeah. No, it's like easy to grab. Like.

11:58
It is cheap, right? Yeah. It's also incentivized because it's tastier and it releases dopamine faster. And then we want more of it. When you eat an apple, you don't get the same dopamine burst.

12:20
So things in nature are just not built to be as addictive. Just like, you know, Instagram and gambling are distractions from our goals. That's the same thing as ultra processed food. It's distractions from our goals. I love that analogy. It's very true. And it's like, they're easy to get in front of or to...

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be distracted by. But what do you do or how do you work when you work with people and, you know, so maybe some of the tips for your book of like, how do you start to flip that switch? Is it just kind of like what they say with the, how you eat an elephant one bite at a time? Yeah, so if you think about it, alcohol, gambling,

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social media addiction, porn addiction, it all uses the same dopamine pathway that processed food uses. So the same way, you know, it's very difficult to quit alcohol or drugs or gambling, it's really hard to quit processed food. Some people can go cold turkey. Other people, you know, need kind of a wind down process.

13:43
We live in a world where it's socially acceptable to be addicted to processed food. It's like how cigarettes were. We don't blink when you see people drinking a Frappuccino then having Doritos and having, literally addicted to processed food all day long. And it's the same thing, it's gonna come out soon because research is mounting.

14:12
that these foods are creating diseases, early death, depression, dementia. And so not only is it making us effing hungry, it's making us depressed and really taking us down as a society.

14:33
One thing you can easily do to upgrade your life is change the way you eat and live and move.

14:45
What do you tell people? Is it just, if you start fasting, it's funny when I fasted that you do take away some of the cravings because you aren't as hungry. You know, it works almost in the opposite way than you think. Like at first, yeah, first time you do it, maybe that first, I don't know, you know, period of time you're starving or you think you're starving. But then it's kind of like when I've done keto, which

15:12
may or may not be good for you. I don't know where you fall on that, but you start, you stop being hungry, you know? Yeah, that's exactly what happens. Intermittent fasting actually calms your cravings. Just like sunlight, I will tell you another tip, natural light calms cravings. Things like eating nuts with, things with high omega-3s calm your cravings.

15:40
And so there are things you can do to turn down the volume of your cravings so that you can shift your nutrition.

15:51
Is it's funny, I was reading like a stat from your thing. You talked about it like the serotonin and all that. You think of it as being like in your brain. But like you said, it's happens in your stomach, you know, in your gut. Yeah. Like we think that maybe because we're the synapses fire, that's where it starts, but it's obviously being triggered elsewhere. Yeah, it's.

16:17
It's like serotonin and dopamine. We always think of it as happiness hormones created in our brain. But I wanted to shed light on the fact that if you wanna be more motivated, you wanna be happier and more satisfied, you have to change a few other things.

16:39
What's the biggest thing, like when you work with people, maybe individually, what do you, do you see that the, is it start with the food? Like, is, obviously the food triggers these things, but is it usually something more traumatic maybe than life that then triggers the eating bad? Is it the chicken or the egg or like, you know, where does it all start?

17:09
Pregnant women wire the baby's brain. So if you crave a lot of unhealthy foods, it could be from your dad and mom's genes passing down. So in the last 80 years, we have become so much more unhealthier.

17:37
Because when we don't eat good foods, our children don't eat good foods. And the wiring gets passed down. It's like trauma. And then the children like you say, or me, if we stop it right there and start to eat more foods that nurture our gut bacteria, that are healthier, not only do we show our children a different way, it actually gets passed down.

18:06
That's crazy. Cause I always, you know, you, you, I talk about this a lot on the show, like nature or nurture, you know? And I think what you're describing is it's both. Yeah, it's both. And I honestly see a downfall of society coming. Like not in the way, in the movies maybe, but in the sense that our rates of depression

18:35
anxiety and disease are skyrocketing. And if we just understood these pathways, we could stop it for our own family. And you could survive this apocalypse kind of thing. Like we already know that the skyrocketing rates of depression and anxiety are just going to skyrocket even more in the next 20 years. Can you imagine what the society is going to look like?

19:05
No, it's already so high. Like you don't. Yeah. How do you get people eating? Like you see the shootings and you see the depression, suicide rates, the violence, and it's all related to mental health.

19:23
How do we get people eating healthier? Like, what's the... You know, my recommendation would be for schools, for government to start to step in. And in certain countries, there's already warning labels on foods. It's so sad, but the US has decided to give Lunchables for school lunches starting in...

19:53
2023 school year.

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which are ultra processed foods.

20:02
And sometimes the healthiest meal of the day that kids are getting is at school.

20:10
this would be our opportunity to maybe give a yogurt or vegetables or some kind of nuts or something that could actually start to change that gut bacteria. Yeah. So fasting is another thing. It was so natural to fast after dark, you know, even just 50 years ago. You didn't see people going to, you know, restaurants, Uber Eats, drive-thrus, frozen meals.

20:40
This is a new phenomenon. And that's something that we can easily change for ourselves. I have a friend who started a company called Mighty Yum. It's going to it's a plant-based Lunchable. You need to go check that out. Howard Paynes. That's cool. He's gone to something and it's going to take off huge. So he talks about the Lunchable stuff a lot and it's...

21:07
He's got an amazing product that's gonna be, that's launching pretty mainstream soon. I'm hoping that maybe it gets picked up by the government and other things for, you know, if you're gonna feed the kids Lunchables, let's have them be as healthy as possible, right? Well, it's funny because they say how Kraft Heinz was working with the government to create the Lunchable. And I'm like, it's all, you know, they're all friends, right? Yeah.

21:35
So it's very easy for them to be like, okay, well we can add some more whole grains Just to fit your criteria, you know, but it's still crappy food It's cheap to make profitable, right? I mean it seems to be always yeah down to the dollar and the Kids don't complain about it. So it's always you know, the least I mean the road to the least friction, but the reality is

22:03
it's causing like you're talking about, like you talk about in your book. We might, we might be solving a micro problem, but we've got a macro issue. Yeah. Because we're maybe solving the problem of hunger, but our gut that you're still hungry. And when they stay hungry, they're going to create bad outcomes. There you have it. So talk to me about some super foods.

22:32
What's in the Dr. Shaw like super food category? I mean, I love fermented foods. I think one of the things that anybody could be doing today is added yogurt, a raw apple cider vinegar, kimchi, kombucha.

22:53
Coconut kefir, something fermented. We know that feeds the gut, sorry, we know that's gonna make you feel happier and fuller. So that's something I think most people can do, like a healthy yogurt or cottage cheese, probiotic cottage cheese. I love cottage cheese. Some people, it's a very controversial food.

23:14
I love all the foods you named. I like almost all foods. Like kombucha, I like to like the yoga studio. We in our little park here in our studio, there's a yoga studio this next door that has a kombucha like on tap or something. I might have to go get some after this. I'm feeling very unhealthy after the Doritos I ate last night. Yeah, and it's okay because also let's start eating 60 to 75% ultra processed food.

23:42
And even healthy people are eating at least 40% or 30% ultra-processed. So it's hard. It's an uphill battle. What's your personal favorite food? Okay. Recently, I've been loving blueberries. Not recently, it's always been my favorite, but it's got antioxidants. It's...

24:11
fiber. It's tastes like a tree. It's nature's treat, right? You can add it to so many different foods. I just think that blueberries are underrated and have a lot of amazing potential. I love this coconut kefir water that you can just take a shot of and it's fermented.

24:39
I think it's called like you got this or something. The one that I use, but it's literally just a ferment. It's just a nice shot that you can take. It's not as sour as apple cider vinegar, but you could do raw apple cider vinegar also. Um, and I love dark chocolate and if that's a polyphenol antioxidant, really good for you. How's, um, is frozen food. Okay. Like if you go to the grocery store and you're making a smoothie, it's like frozen fruit.

25:08
Still okay? Yeah. In fact, frozen fruit is one of the underrated foods. What you don't want to do is get the frozen dinners. Those things are one of the worst things you could put in your body, even though lean cuisine sounds so healthy. But the additives that they put in there are just through the roof. We're like the mean cuisine.

25:38
Yeah, exactly. Like I wish people knew that there are simple things that you could do. So instead of making the pasta bake from lean cuisine, just it takes the same amount of time to make the pasta. Yeah, I, that's why I have a lot of non-healthy things, but I've stayed away from the lean cuisines, mainly because I was trying to stay away from anything too lean. But it's how about like meat though?

26:08
Like we're going down this path. I think there's a lot of people, you know, meat in general. So that kind of, that's not a processed, but where do we fall on the meat scale? Yeah. So I've been in this world of research and I really feel that the more foods you can eat that's unprocessed, the better. That if it's lean, if it's fresh, if it's not full of additives and chemicals,

26:36
that's always better than picking the processed food. So like, for example, when people came out with these highly processed vegetarian burgers, I get it, you're trying to get people to eat more plants, but that's not the way, because you're basically telling them to switch from eating a pure non-processed protein to an ultra-processed protein.

27:01
So in my mind, I say, okay, I don't believe in high meat only diets, but I don't think that there's anything wrong if you prefer fish or eggs or small amounts of unprocessed meat. It just shouldn't be your only food. Like I don't believe in carnivore being healthy for you in the longterm. Well, that's good because the official meat sponsor of the Radcast Good Ranchers is farm raised,

27:31
everything is like naturally fed and it's all lean and it's the best meat in the country. So you're telling me that my friends at Good Ranchers are as healthy as I think they are, just like everything, everything in moderation, but we much rather have a lean cut of meat than a processed food. Absolutely. Yes. Ben's going to be so happy. And I also think that people

28:00
Oh, vegan is better. You know, keto is better. Paleo is better. All of them can be good or bad. It just depends on the quality. Like, I see some of my keto friends having bacon wrapped with cheese for breakfast. And I mean, in no world is that healthy. Like, if you take a processed cheese product, American Single, and you put a processed meat product,

28:29
You might lose weight, but you're not doing yourself any favors. Yeah. I mean, that's back to what we talked about. It's like something might seem good in the micro. Okay. I lost weight, but in the macro sense, it's not helping your overall health. It's it's like you're maybe you're using a few pounds, you know, like this ozempic and these weight loss medications.

28:56
The people that are taking it that are not overweight don't have diabetes. They do it just to lose the weight. But then when you stop it, you rebound it right back.

29:11
Well, you got to make longer term decisions of what you eat. Right. So you stop being so effing hungry. Yeah, exactly. And my, my, my thought is if you can control your cravings for food, you can control your cravings for anything. I think you're right. Cause it's funny. Like I can go to the gym. I can do a lot of things.

29:37
that most people would consider very difficult and probably not do. I have a high tolerance for difficult things, but eating is, I am just so-so. Like, I mean, I do, I have my moments, but I mean, I know it can be better.

29:58
It's it's like anything. It's a muscle right like as you start to learn so say after this you start to make some changes It only takes three days for the gut to start changing And all of a sudden you're gonna have new cravings and it's gonna be easier and exponentially after that three days Is uh, and I still have my days I still have you know full on cheat days But there's just less

30:28
Frequent. And I'm able to keep a healthier physique longer, you know, without going on these like big diets and then go off the wagon, on the wagon, that whole thing that Americans are just known for that. Yeah. I think it's, you know, well, there's so many fad diets, fad this and like it's the trends, right? Where's the trend nation of the up down and.

30:57
following what you think is best. And there is a lot of, a lot of voices out there, let's just say that, so it can be confusing.

31:08
very confusing. And let's put it this way. They get their clicks, products sold, and their videos viewed by saying the contrary and sounding really convincing. And so as the wellness world has become so messy, you don't even know what's right anymore. Yeah, that's the truth.

31:33
So Dr. Shah, if everybody wants to get less messy and keep up with everything you're doing and work with you or learn from you, how do they do it? So I have this book, new book called I'm So F'ing Hungry. It's available on Amazon or everywhere, bookstores sold. I'm also at amymdwellness.com and at Fasting MD as you.

32:02
mentioned and I'm very prolific in that arena because I think it's a nice way to get the message out there.

32:11
I love it. Lots of places to keep up and everybody needs to go check out. I'm so effing hungry because there's a lot of truth there. As Dr. Shah has said, it's not easy, but it's worth the changes that you'll make in keeping yourself healthy. And Dr. Shah, I really, really appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me. It was fun. Hey guys.

32:37
When you go to theradcast.com, I want you to search for Dr. Amy Shaw. You're gonna find all the highlight clips from today's episode and link to her book. I'm so effing hungry and links to her on Instagram and all her social channels. You know where I'm at, the Ryan Allford on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn. You know where to find me. And hey, shout out to our sponsor, the Good Ranchers, goodranchers.com. The best meat in the US, healthy farm raised in the US. Just like Dr. Shaw said.

33:06
in moderation, better than processed food. We'll see you next time on the Radcast. To listen or watch full episodes, visit us on the web at theradcast.com or follow us on social media at our Instagram account, v.rad.cast or at Ryan Alford. Stay radical.