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You're listening to the Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast. If it's radical, we cover it.

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Here's your host, Ryan Alford. We're talking houses today, my friend. We're talking radical flipping, radical entrepreneurs. We're talking Tarek El-Moussa. What's up, brother? Not much, buddy. How you doing? Hey man. What's marketing to you? What's your appreciation level of marketing and the role of it in kind of what you're doing? I mean, marketing is everything. You got to get your phone to ring. So like for me, my first 10 years as an entrepreneur, 12 years as an entrepreneur, I never did any.

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marketing. I was taught sales and I was taught sales on the phone. So all I did was call people all I did was text people all I did was network with people. And then as the short sales and those things started to dry up, I realized well, hey, I'm building a brand now I should try this marketing thing. So in 2000 and I think 13 is when I got into marketing and today we're doing heavy marketing hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. We have TV commercials running throughout Southern California, we have heavy digital marketing campaigns running.

01:11
We have print mailers going, we have driving for dollars, we have cold calling campaigns, we have texting campaigns, we have email campaigns. So we're just always hitting everything, you know? And I say, you know, in order to get leads, you have to hit them from land, air, and sea. You gotta hit them from every angle possible. I mean, what is it about real estate right now that's just so hot? I mean, you know, there's so many amazing things about real estate. Like one is people are extremely excited about the appreciation of real estate, right? But...

01:37
At the same time, the last couple of years, we've seen the fastest appreciation, and I think US history. So that's one thing to look at, but you know, real estate is an amazing thing. You can depreciate against your taxes. You get appreciation, you get cashflow, you get leverage, and it's just a fun and exciting business. Yeah. Let's, let's back up for a second, Tarek. And I'm sure you've done, done these in the past, but I do want our audience to know, obviously you've been on reality TV for...

02:03
10 plus years. I'm sure most have heard the name, if not, but I'd love to give a little bit of that organic story for you. Just that professional journey. I'll give you the three to four minute version. I got out of high school and at 19 years old, I was selling kitchen knives. Most people know Cutco kitchen knives because half the world has sold those knives. I ended up losing my sales book and inside my sales book had all my leads, all my contacts. Back then when I was 19, that's how I made my living.

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So I lost my sales book. I was going broke. I didn't want to get a job. I was at a Washington Mutual Bank and I was just standing there at the ATM machine and I was like, shit, what do I do now? I have no money. And I swear, true story, I looked up to the right and there was this big crooked sign said, why is old owl real estate school? And I had a defining moment. I call defining moment a moment in your life that changes the trajectory of your life.

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So I was like, shit, man, if I could sell knives, I can sell houses. So I walked right over to that crooked sign, opened the door, walked in, and I signed up for real estate classes and it was a rocky ride. So I was officially licensed, I believe, at 20 and my first six months in the business, young, hungry, motivated, excited, you know, I completely struck out. I didn't get one sale and I wanted to quit real estate and I hated school and I was going to go back to school.

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And randomly, there was a seminar coming into town by the name of a guy, Mike Ferry. And it was a real estate coaching seminar. It was a free seminar. And I was 20 years old kid. You know, I just got out of high school. I didn't even know that coaching existed in the business world. You know, for me, a coach was a baseball coach, a football coach, a hockey coach, right? Like I didn't even know you can get a real estate coach. So

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I go to this free seminar and by the end of this thing, like this Mike Ferry guy has me convinced I'm the smartest son of a son of a bitch alive. I'm going to be the most successful guy alive. Like he convinced me I was unstoppable and it was like all mindset. It was wild. And at the end of that free seminar, you know, I'll never forget I walked up to him and I handed him a piece of paper. I said, Hi, my name is Tarko Musa. You don't know who I am today, but one day you will. By the way, he knows who I am now. I bet he does.

04:21
So talk about the reality TV for a minute. So you've done it, shit. I mean, most reality TV shows do not have the longevity you guys had, number one. I mean, I'd say you're probably like the top 1% if I just had to guess, purely unscientific guess, but I would guess, because most of them would go what? A year, two, three years? So you're 10? Yeah, a couple seasons. So how real was your reality TV?

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Oh yeah, it was real because I don't know, here's the, if you watch my show, literally I wore sandals, black board shorts, t-shirts, I looked like I was a bum half the time. I didn't even think about being on TV. I was just thinking about not going bankrupt because I didn't know how to flip houses and just unfortunately there were cameras there. So it was all real. At the beginning I didn't know anything about anything and I just kind of figured it out as I went. But how much staging is involved in kind of making the show as interesting as it was?

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You know, like, you know, you're following the processes of a flip, right? So you can't stage that. You have to show the demo. You have to show the walkthrough. You have to show the design. You have to show the remodel. Right. Yep. And then outside of that, you know, it would follow small parts of our personal life. You know, it wasn't a personal life reality show, so it only, it only gave a little peek inside of a personal life. So Tori, so talk, talk to me about like your net takeaway from Flipper Flopper. Are you like?

05:47
High gratitude, really appreciate it. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but like what's your name? You know? I mean, shit, you know, I'm 40 years old now and I spent almost a third of my life filming that TV show. So, you know, it's a part of me. It'll always be with me. I'll always have those memories. I mean, shit, when I'm a 60, 70, 80 year old man, I can go back and watch myself as a 29 year old kid.

06:10
So it's definitely something in my life I wouldn't change. And it's been an incredible experience and one hell of a ride. When I say the words personal branding to you, where does your mind go with the Tarek El Moussa brand and your perspective on yourself? You know, I'm a big believer in, not just flipping houses, I'm a big believer in flipping your life. I'm talking about upgrade your wardrobe, take your goddamn vitamins, go to the stupid gym.

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buy nicer clothing, get your shit tailored, always be the best version of you possible. And it's always I'm always going under a remodel. I'm always working on myself. I'm always trying to improve. I'm always trying to become the best version of me. I mean, I think it's the absolute best business in the world. But at the same time, I always say, you know, before you invest in anything, you have to invest in yourself. What does that mean? It doesn't mean the first step is to go out there and buy a house tomorrow. It means the first step is

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to learn about the business, to learn how to buy a house, and then you go buy a house. So it's really important to have some knowledge and it's not rocket science. Just get a little bit of knowledge and just start the process. And I'm a big believer in, just take your time. If you don't get to deal your first month, it's okay. If you don't get to deal your first two months, it's okay. You don't get to deal your first three months, it's okay. As long as you're practicing and as long as you're learning. Because over time, no matter what, just like riding a bike, things are gonna start to click.

07:34
Where do you get your knowledge? So now you've, you know, you're kinda in the prime of your career, like knowledge and, you know, opportunities, you've learned a lot, you've got the, I don't know, thicker skin maybe from the experiences of 2007. I mean, like, but where do you, what's your source of knowledge, learning, and other things now that you're kinda at your level? Sure, I'm a guy that learns by doing. Yeah. Like, that's it.

08:03
I learned by doing like, what does that mean? Well, how do you get off market deals? You got to talk to homeowners. So I picked up the phone. I sounded like an asshole. I had no idea what I was doing, but I was calling off market. And as time goes on, just like in sports, when I was five years old, the more you practice that something, the better you're going to get. So for me, like I taught myself how to flip houses just through, you know, practicing and trial and error. I tried everything. Nature nurture, you know, like, yeah, you know, do you like.

08:29
Like I said earlier, I hate when people tell me I can't do something. It really pisses me off. You know, the biggest coach in my life was my dad. At five years old, I learned a very valuable lesson. My dad was a soccer coach. I loved playing soccer and he was an incredible player. So my dad was actually invited to be the head coach of the all star soccer team. So as a five year old, so excited. And then when my dad picked the team, he didn't pick me. Oh shit. So yeah, so he did. Like I'll never forget being at the dinner table.

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five years old, just like crying my eyes out. And I was like, well, why didn't you pick me? And he said, son, I love you, you're not good enough. But he said, I'll never forget, he said, you're not good enough. But if you work really hard, next year you're gonna make that team. Damn. So what was the lesson my dad taught me? Yeah. You don't get shit for free. No one's gonna do it for you but you. And the only way to get success is to put in the work.

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So that's what I learned at five years old. If I wanted something, I had to work for it. No one's gonna give it to me. 20, 30 years from now, like, will you look back? What do we want people to think and remember about Tarek? I want people to think, remember that anything is possible. I showed the world that a guy that grew up with no money in Buena Park, California ended up on TV with a dollar to his name, and he did something with his life while a TV camera followed him. I want to inspire as many people as humanly possible.

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I want to get as many people into real estate as humanly possible. And I really want to change lives because, you know, people change my life and it's my obligation to do the same for others. I love it, brother. So let's let's give everybody some of the places they can keep up with you. Some of these projects, how they can get involved with you. Sure. If you're an accredited investor, you want to partner with me on some apartment buildings, you got to check TEM Investments or investwithtarek.com.

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If you want to learn how to flip houses, which is to be active real estate investor, go out there and find, fix and sell. You got to check out homeschooled by tarik.com. And if you got a house to sell, you got to check out tarik buys houses.com. There we go. I love it. All the places to keep up. Tarek, I really appreciate your time, brother. I know there's been some enlightening things here for people get to know you a little deeper, a little better. Really appreciate your transparency and willingness to kind of open up a little bit.

10:50
Yeah, absolutely. And if, you know, if you guys want to see a little bit of everything that's going on, um, my Instagram is, uh, the real Tarek El Moussa. And the reason it's the real is cause someone stole my name. There's your note for people. I, uh, I personally bought all of my children's names on Instagram 10 years ago, uh, along with mine, uh, for that very reason. You never know. So that's cool, brother. I really appreciate you.

11:18
All right, man. Great chatting with you and until next time. We're talking bachelor today. We're talking college football. We're talking Jesse Palmer. What's up, brother? Good, brother. Good. Good. Good. Being on with it. Hey, I'm doing great, man. I think by now you're getting to be a household name. But, you know, for our audience, I definitely just want to kind of get into your journey. You know, you can start it and tell it from whatever point you want. But I think you got a real unique perspective and a kind of a real, obviously very unique journey.

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and winding path. So let's start down that man. Yeah. Unique journey. That's definitely a good way to put it, to tease it. It's I never expected that I would, I would be in the position I am today. For sure. I grew up in a, in a small town outside of Ottawa, Canada. It's called the peon. Um, and my dad was a former professional football player. My mom was a model. Uh, I grew up wanting to be an NFL quarterback. Uh, and I knew that from, from the time that I was seven years old and, and

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It was an awesome dream to have, but it was kind of unique and weird because I was in Canada where everybody loves hockey and everybody just talks about hockey. Football is really not that big of a deal. And I just worked and grinded and played, you know, played every sport growing up. But my dad was my coach and I got really lucky and a big turning point in my life was was getting a scholarship to play for Steve Spurrer at the University of Florida. I got there right after they won a national championship in 1996. Danny Werfel had won the Heisman Trophy. So.

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It was really just a unique time in my life. And fast forward four years from there, got drafted by the New York Giants, played in the NFL for about five or six years, and then started my career into sports broadcasting with ESPN. And that essentially is sort of what kind of opened up the door for a lot of TV opportunities as well. I was so lucky to be able to avoid a lot of pitfalls.

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injuries life whatever it is To have had the opportunity to have those five six years in the NFL dude Those were the best days of my life and when I was starting games I was getting a crap kicked out of me But honestly, dude, I would do it all over again in a millisecond to be on the field again with the guys because it was That that's the only thing I ever wanted to do since I was seven years old So I'm eternally grateful to so many people

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and to the experiences I had. College football nut, myself included, goes, damn, that'd be a dream job. You know, like, I mean, and I'm like, and it's never as sexy, like you said, 2 a.m. stuff, you get tired, there's always stuff that's, it's a job. People forget that, but damn, have your passion and your work come to life. And you gotta remind yourself too, there are a lot of people out there that would slit your throat for your job. We have a job we really love.

14:12
Sometimes it gets tough like you were mentioning and all of them do. There's no such thing as the perfect job. Yeah. Um, but it's in those moments that you really do have to sort of remind yourself, you know, don't take it for granted because there's somebody out there who's very, very hungry that wants your job and they'll do anything to get it. And so that's, it's a good reminder, I think, for people sometimes when you sort of get in tough spots. What do you think's attributed to your longevity with the ESPN?

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I just wanted to go like this nature nurture thing with you, man. I can't quite put my finger on it. Like, you know, both your joy and doing things, your attitude, but you know, I'm almost kind of getting at what makes you successful while also asking, you know, that longevity is not easy in the sport. Yeah. Scribed. Yeah. I mean, for me, I mean, I just, this kind of goes back to playing football. It's like, I was, I just work really, really hard at it. And I study a lot. I watch a lot of tape. I watch so much film every year. I've got.

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just books and binders of notes that I've taken watching teams. I put a lot into it. And I think a lot of people that do this job, everybody sort of has their own path and their own way that they operate. Some guys are great at just not studying and just kind of showing up and watching the game and just giving it to you raw and live. I sort of look at, you know, I do it the way I used to play quarterback, where you watch film, you study the opponent, you do it for a week, and then you're able to sort of take everything that you've studied.

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and you've got in your head and you sort of kind of spit it out on game day with respect to what you're seeing. So I hope part of my longevity has to do with the product that I'm putting out. And a lot of that really is preparation and really, really hard work. It's, I'm not the guy that just kind of shows up and wings it. And I, hopefully, hopefully for, for the, uh, the fans and the viewers at home, hopefully that comes across. No, it does. Again, it's a compliment. Like.

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Robotically, not because you're a robot, but because I'm like the detail. You know, I'm like, yeah, it's there. I remember playing for Sean Payton with the New York Giants and I remember he would grind, he was like a John Gruden disciple who would grind all hours of the night. We'd be in our quarterback meeting Friday morning and Sean had the biggest eye bags, he was crushing dip, he had a coffee, he was like double fisting coffees and he was going through it and he would put so much work into our game plan. Like our game plan,

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our playbook for that week was huge. And we would lose a game and be really disappointing and just put up six points and just all like 160 yards. And I think to myself like, man, like how's he gonna change? Like obviously that was not a good outcome. We lost the game, that was embarrassing. How is he gonna change his preparation the next time? And to his credit, he never did. He just trusted the process. He went back in the office at 4 a.m. on Sunday or on Monday.

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and just started the whole thing again, trusting that in believing in what he was doing was right. And that really sort of taught me like, you've got to find whatever it is that gets you ready and just believe in it. And I have good days in studio and I have bad days in studio and I have good days in the booth and I have bad days in the booth. But I don't try to try to deviate too much from what got me here and what's allowed me to be successful these last 15 years. Yeah, I think it's good for people to hear that because

17:28
Dude, man, you look like you got it all together. You're a good looking guy. You've been on The Bachelor, which we're going to get to. And it's like, but no, this guy is busting his ass, working hard, preparing, and it doesn't just get handed. It's like hard work. And I think it's good for people to hear that from you because I think there's just a, you know, I mean, you know, you do, I'm sure you've dealt with that in your life, you know? Oh, you got it easy or something, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, I mean, listen.

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Listen, no doubt about it. And I tell people this all the time, like my career at Florida and playing in the NFL and being on the Bachelor, to some extent, did that help me land ESPN? Absolutely it did, of course it did. Yeah. But once you get there, what do you do with it? Because we've also had a lot of, we've had NFL Hall of Famers at ESPN that got a job because of that, but they didn't last very long. Because they didn't work very hard. Yep. You know, at the end of the day, your game tape, your film, and what you put out on,

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camera at ESPN and studio and in the booth, that is your resume and it speaks for itself. Is it nature or nurture for you, man? Is this all like, is your parents just, just raise you well, or do you just, you just built this way? You know, I, man, I mean, not to get all Freudian. I don't know. It's like, I, I, oh, listen, I was very, very lucky. I had two incredible role models and my, my mom and my dad, they, they definitely instilled a lot of discipline in me, a lot of work ethic and a lot of gratitude and appreciation.

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growing up at a very young age and I think staying close to them throughout my entire life and having the messages reinforced over and over, I think has definitely helped a lot and I think trying to be around like-minded people. You got to be careful who your circles are. Every football player has got a kind of a tiny circle. You've got the team, you've got the offense, you know, but you get like four or five dudes, different positions, whatever, that you kind of run with. I was always trying to make sure they were positive.

19:23
people that were appreciative of what we were doing and loved what we were doing. Jesse, I know everybody knows probably where to find you, but where do you direct people when they're wanting to keep up with you? Oh, just Instagram, Jesse Palmer on Instagram and Jesse Palmer TV on Twitter is pretty much it. Hey, I really enjoyed this. I hope we can do it again down the road and would love to stay in touch. Everyone that's necessarily a passion, but growing up here in South Kackalacki, going to Clemson University.

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following college football and NASCAR. I got someone who I truly admire. Marty Smith. What's up brother? Ryan. Hey man. I appreciate you having me in full disclosure to all you guys listening. I'm late and I'm very sorry. I've put Ryan in a heck of a predicament here is very popular man. His schedule is packed and I have completely foo barred the whole thing.

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But man, it's, I appreciate your interest in hearing a little bit of my path and story and I appreciate you and what you do there with your podcast and I know it inspires a ton of people. So it's cool. Thank you, Marty. I really appreciate that. A lot of our audience has heard of you, seen you on TV, seen the stories that you bring to life. But for anyone that has it and for those that have, that don't know some, I wouldn't mind just talking a little bit about your.

20:48
your journey. Well, uh, thank you. First of all, I appreciate your kind words. It is always makes me laugh. There's a substantial contingent of folks out there who watch and listen to what I do on ESPN and they think I'm faking the accent as if a Southern accent is some sort of substantial benefit in the world of professional broadcasting. So I'll try to give a truncated version of the path. I grew up about

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20 miles or 25 miles west of Virginia Tech's campus in a little town called Parisburg. It's a kind of a farming community, super blue collar, God and country kind of vibe. And I would not trade my upbringing there for anything. The high school football, Friday night lights vibe is 100% accurate. It is the marquee social event, the week, it is

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the identity of the town. I was on some teams that were very good and it's one of those things where if you're a kind of a starting player on a team that's that good, you don't pay for your blizzards, you don't pay for your haircuts and the whole thing. I mean, it's remarkable for me to chase that nostalgia. So I went from growing up there in Parisburg

22:06
to Radford University. I had a brief stop at a school in East Tennessee called Carson Newman College. It's now Carson Newman University played middle infield there. That wasn't right for me. So I transferred over to Radford and it was one of the greatest blessings ever for me because I had to figure out who and what I wanted to be when I wasn't an athlete anymore other than a greater purpose, which is to be kind, have great effort and great passion and everything that I get to cover. And

22:36
hopefully inspire somebody along the way. And I'm looking in the mirror. I know that I control those three things. I control how nice I am to other people. I control how hard I'm willing to work and give every last ounce of everything I am to whatever that challenge is before me. And that I do that with an undeniable positive energy that's on me. But when I think of Marty Smith, I do think there's this earnest,

23:06
kindness that comes through in your reporting and your storytelling. It truly is the Marty Smith brand. When I first started in this, like a lot of dudes, a lot of dudes are insecure. We pretend like we're not, but we are. So my greatest insecurity is I like to be liked. And in our business, man, that ain't a good one to have. There's a lot of people who don't like your style or don't like your haircut or don't like how you carry yourself. And that's okay.

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That's their prerogative to feel however they want to. And you can't force them any other way other than to live your life in a manner that gives you purpose and fulfillment. How do you feel about cancel culture? I don't know, man. I just, again, I just try really hard to keep the main thing, the main thing all the time. Yeah. And for me, it's those three kind of pillars that I just mentioned and...

24:02
It's being true to stories. And if I'm interviewing someone, it's asking them open ended questions that let them tell me their story. Rather than trying to drive them towards a story, anybody who's read my book knows this one story about Dale Earnhardt Jr. that really altered my entire approach to the way that I interview people. This was 2012. I think I had done an interview with Jeff Gordon, the

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NASCAR icon. My career was sort of blossoming a little bit in that moment. And I was feeling myself a little bit and I started asking Jeff questions. He would start to answer. And if he started to meander off from where I wanted it to go, I would cut him off right there. And then I would try to drive it right back where I wanted it to go. Well, the interview didn't air for a couple of weeks. And when it did finally air be on one of the pre-race shows,

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I got a lot of positive feedback and I was really proud of the work we'd done. Well, after that race, it was in New Hampshire. I was charged with interviewing Dale Earnhardt Jr. who's like a brother to me. And you talk about honesty. I mean, there's 30 people waiting to talk to him and he like kind of, kind of gives me one of these head nods, like get your ass over here. And I go over there and he turns his back to the crowd and puts his finger in my chest and he goes, you need to shut up. He said, you need to stop interrupting people.

25:30
He said, I watched, I was watching that interview you did with Jeff. And there were some things that he was saying that I wanted to hear him finish and you cut him off and it was rude. And man, I was so mad at him, but I knew he was right. And because I knew he was right in my heart, it completely altered the way I do this and what happened. I got so much better as an interviewer. Marty, man, I can't appreciate you more. Some of the stories you told has been the best we've had on the

25:57
The podcast, we've done 150 episodes and I was sitting here. I don't, I can't remember the time I got cold chills thinking about Eric Church inviting you fishing and you actually went in the fishing tournament, dude. I mean, you are real and I hope that we can stay connected. We can do this again. Look, I appreciate you having me again. I'm sorry that I was late and I appreciate you giving me a platform for the message and get been given the platforms that I have to try to.

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share these stories and hopefully maybe touch a life or two or shape a thought or two. And so I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to do that. My pleasure. I love what y'all are doing, man. Thank you. Thank you so much. Finally, Marty, what's the best place? I know we talked about outsider.com. We talked about a lot of platforms. What is the best place for everyone to keep up with all things Marty, or even multiple places to keep up with Marty Smith?

26:51
Twitter and Instagram are Marty Smith ESPN. So please do check that out. So yeah, those two platforms I'm active on and, uh, I would appreciate if you check them out. So thank you for teeing me up there. My pleasure. We're talking, acting, writing, everything. Christopher Sean. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much for having me, Ryan. Um, I'm honored, dude. You are a huge, huge deal. And I am just a minnow in your big pond. Oh, come on, man.

27:21
Star Wars, we won awards, we were writing books. Come on, man. I'm just a guy over here running a podcast, getting the pleasure to talk to the stars like yourself. Let's back up a bit. I want you to tell a little bit of your story. You've got a unique background. I love your heritage and some of the uniqueness of that I really wanna talk about, but let's give everybody a little bit of the, I don't know, the Cliffs Notes on Christopher Sean.

27:49
My father was in the Navy and he's retired now and he became a civilian as an air traffic controller. He met my mom while he's serving deployed in Yokosuka Japan, Yokosuka Japan, and my two sisters and myself being the youngest and we traveled kind of everywhere. Our station in Washington, Subic Bay, Japan, Mississippi, grandparents in Ohio, San Diego and so forth kind of traveled all over. Southern California is home for me.

28:20
and acting, I was always kind of wanting to be an actor because my father, being in the Navy, he'd record himself on the little beta tapes, you know? This is predating the VHS tapes. But he would record us on the beta tapes, and then he would send us little videos of him reading us books. And I remember being a kid and seeing my dad on TV, and my dad's like, you know, reading us a little book about a bat who was playing to both sides of the animal kingdom.

28:48
the ones that fly and the ones that are on land. And it was like this, I can't remember the name of the actual book, but you know, he's, he was kind of playing both sides. I remember listening to that and my dad would be like, Christopher sit down. I was like, how does he know I'm standing? This is crazy. So, um, uh, my mom would then get that camera out and then she would record us and she was like, this is for your dad. So make sure you're having a good time and you know, so I always felt super comfortable and myself on camera.

29:16
So in growing up, I was a very, very, very introverted, very shy person. I decided, you know what? I've got to overcome that fear and I've got to pursue my passion, my dream. And I just got to go for it. So I got an acting classes and from then on, it was kind of like, I remember holding the piece of paper, shaking barely being able to read off of the paper. It was so nervous. And I remember saying to myself, it was one of the most humiliating and yet freeing experiences. And I, and I have to overcome that fear.

29:44
because I will not allow it to stop me from pursuing my passion. That acting journey. So it wasn't just immediate stardom and and all the riches and gold and all, you know, like the every gig you ever wanted that I thought that's how it worked. Right. Isn't that the Hollywood dream? Yeah, it's strange. I stepped out and immediately put a crown on me and rolled. You started calling me Ryan Alford. Yeah. Wait, that's not me. I'm not the king. That's that's you.

30:11
No, for me, I came out here and I really thought like, okay, I have to, who am I? What's going to make me unique? What's going to separate me? So I did a few beauty pageants and I thought if I had a title, I can get an agent and secured it. After I got a couple of titles, I secured an agent, got my agent and they only wanted to rep me commercial. And so I was like, no, no, I'm like, I was like, yes, of course, absolutely. Yes. Yes. And then I remember going home and thinking.

30:38
I deserve more. I got to work. I got to show them that I deserve it. I was just too complicit. So in that decision, I remember I called them like two weeks later after having that inner monologue being like, you're worth it. You're valuable. Come on, man. And then I called them and I was like, can I show you that I'm ready for theatrical as well? And they're like, okay, come on in, do a monologue for us. And I did. They gave me a two year contract on the spot signed across the board. I was like, okay, so

31:06
As long as I can continue to overcome my fears and speak what I want, I can have it. Every audition room I got in, I learned something. I failed and I failed and I failed. I wasn't either, whether it was my look, I'm not Asian enough or I'm not white enough. Whether it's my experience, my resume wasn't big enough to be able to get the larger rules, whatever it may be, I failed time and time again, countless amount of times. But through each failure, I learned and I grew and I adapted and I evolved. And I found that.

31:34
You know, nothing was going to stop me unless I gave up, unless I chose to throw in the towel. But my goal again was to like always, always be proactive, be ready and stay ahead of the game. And after about nine years of struggle and again, not having complete focus as to what I wanted. After being homeless, I cut everything out of my life. That was toxic. That was bad. And I started to refine and filter out everything that wasn't helping me in my goal. And from there.

32:04
You know, right after Hawaii Five-0, I got a two-year contract on days, and about three months in, they call me back for Hawaii Five-0, hey, we want you to be the main antagonist, you know, of seasons five and six. And it was kind of like for three years, I was flying back and forth from Hawaii Five-0 and Days Are Alive. Like you said, growing up as a kid, you know, having an Asian background and like not seeing or having that reference point, it's like, that's a big deal, you know? And like, and then getting that opportunity to become...

32:33
You know, a role model. I don't know. I just think that's cool. You know, I really appreciate that. And it does actually have like a psychological effect as a child because you don't ever see yourself as the hero. You never really see yourself as, as the hero of your own story. You always see yourself as kind of the sidekick or supporting role. And it's not just you. It's how society views people of color. Yeah. Um, and sadly it's like, well,

33:00
You know, oh, there's the Asian guy. And when you think of Asian, you immediately slap him with stereotypes. You know, uh, the nerd, the mathematician, the martial artist. Now I'm great at all three of those things. You're smart. You're good looking and you're great at karate. But other than that, I don't want to stereotype you. No, but honestly, like, you know, just like, I bet you're great at.

33:28
At those as well. Plus many more were multilayered people as well as any other race, you know? And it's like the more that you, you showcase that on television, the more that you start to normalize other races and that we are just all bleeding the same color blood, you know, there were no different you and I I'm, I'm just, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm the thumb on the hand and you're, you can be the pointer. You can be the middle, whatever you'd like. We're all in the same hand.

33:58
So where do you get the most recognition? You know, like, and he said the most excitement might come from people recognizing you for days. So multi-level question here, you know, first talk about in general, I'm curious like the soap opera experience and the day's experience. And I don't know, give us some, I don't know, grub or insight to the soap opera world, you know?

34:26
behind the scenes. Man, I'll tell you what, it is a very, very fast machine. If you can't keep up, you know, Drake Hogan, always tells me your name is on paper and they can come off that door just as quick as it was put up. You know, you gotta be ready. You gotta hustle for what you want in life. And if they're telling you this is what they want, well, then get ahead of the game and start working, developing, get on it. Like I'm posting every single day of my stories.

34:54
You know, I post every single day because that is a 24 hour window where I know that that's it. You have to come to my page to see what I'm doing within that 24 hours or you're never going to see it again. Yeah. You've been in the business for a while now. You've had the peaks and valleys. You've seen a lot of different things. I think you're, I think maybe hitting your stride, maybe like your popularity, your opportunities, hopefully are growing. We'll get a little bit more into that. You've kind of come up to the business while social media.

35:22
has kind of taken off, you know? I'm curious from a business and marketing perspective, the impact that you have or may haven't seen, you know, as it relates to the power of social media and maybe your career and like how you leverage it or, you know, all those things. I'd just be curious. I think that's a great question. You know, social media absolutely correlates to the entertainment industry because social media is marketing. It's direct to consumer marketing.

35:47
So if you're not taking advantage of that, if you're not seeing the value in that as a business person, then you're absolutely missing the trend, what's popular, what is the new means of marketing. You know, you investing time and all that, you got your fans following you, but you never know what producer's watching. You never know, like you said, what audition you're gonna get in, and hey, this guy's active on social media. He's a great actor, he's talented, but he's also gonna bring us.

36:16
you know, some awareness on top of a project. Maybe it's not as big as like some gigantic movie or something, but it's a leverage point. So it's smart of you to kind of leverage it and use it for what it can be. And that's what I coach people on is like, you know, use it, you know, it's like, it's there, like we can, you know, bitch about it all day, but like it's, it's an opportunity point for, for people. Celebrities are accessible. Yep. Uh, you can build communities. Um, if you need spare change and you have a hobby,

36:45
you have the opportunity to then make a little cash by selling it to friends rather than knocking door to door. Like again, there's so many opportunities that can be found if you just aren't afraid of change. I love it brother man. You've been a refreshing, pleasant interview in a lot of ways. But for real, let's keep it going. I wanna stay in touch and definitely get up when I'm out your direction. Get me up man, I might be able to pull some strings for a.

37:13
Days of our lives tour. Who knows? Give me up. Don't get me excited, man. Don't get me excited. Chris, where can everybody keep up with you? Instagram, please. I'm on TikTok, ChrisRashawn, but Instagram is where I'm mostly located. I will reply to almost every DM at Mr. ChrisRashawn. One word, Mr. ChrisRashawn. S-E-A-N. Thank you for the love, man. I really appreciate having me.

37:40
Brother, I really appreciate it. We're gonna stay in touch. I know we will. And you got big things coming for you. I know you do. Thank you, brother. Have a great day. Thank you. Hey guys, you know where to find us, theradcast.com. Search for Nightwing. You'll find all the highlight clips from today from Christopher Shawn. You know where I'm at, at Ryan Alford and all the platforms. Go follow this guy on TikTok. Get his skittish numbers up. We'll see you next time.

38:03
To listen or watch full episodes, visit us on the web at theradcast.com or follow us on social media at our Instagram account, the.rad.cast or at Ryan Alford. Stay radical.