00:00

Hey guys, Ryan Alford here for the Radical Company podcast. A little interesting switch here. This is actually an episode that I recorded with Ben Harris from the GOALINK podcast. I was invited on his show and we sat down and talked about a lot of things, both life, business and perspective on being an entrepreneur. Really great, being the host of the podcast. I'm usually on the other end interviewing people.

 

00:28

but it kind of got to give a little bit more transparency around my core beliefs, how I do business, some of my background getting into starting Radical, and my early days in the ad agency business, and just my early thoughts on entrepreneurship. Really excited for this episode. I hope you enjoy it. Definitely go check out GOALINK and Ben Harris on Instagram, LinkedIn, as well as the normal podcast sessions. Here it is.

 

00:57

Ryan all for what's up my dude what's happening we are in the new space um camaraderie correct that's how i that's how i say it not camaraderie yeah you could say it that way too but yeah uh camaraderie is is the name right here yeah i'm super stoked to be here this is it's a definitely like a rad i didn't even mean to say that but it's a rad spot and i'm just happy you're letting me come in here crash the party uh interrupt the flow so thanks for being here my man

 

01:25

Well, I guess thank me for being here, but thanks for doing this. Yeah, absolutely so before I just had an idea usually you start off these things with Tell me about yourself. I'm gonna actually say what's something that people wouldn't expect to know about you Wouldn't expect okay curveball right off the bat. I told you better be ready. I have one kidney

 

01:51

I was born with a cystic kidney and I was two days old. It scared the crap out of my parents because they had me in the ICU unit because they didn't know what was wrong with me. But I had one of my kidneys was just deformed and born unusable but my body was trying to use it. So it threw off all my natural ways. But so I've lived my entire life with one kidney and so there's your unknown fact. I don't know if that was like.

 

02:19

Helped you anywhere in the personal development coaching aspect, but that's something very few people know. It's stunted my growth. That's the inside joke because growing up, and I don't know if you ever heard this, they say people with kidney issues growing up, it does stunt their growth. So it can have something to do with your development. Luckily I had no such issues. How tall are you?

 

02:46

I'm right at six five. Yeah, six five. With shoes on, I'm definitely six five. I think I'm, you know, take the shoes off, I'm like six four and a half, six four and three quarters. So, this is, yeah, we're not getting into the development world space yet, but have you, cause I know like you're a fit dude, and have you had any trouble building muscle being a tall person? Yeah, I think, in some ways, yes.

 

03:13

I think especially when I was younger, in teens, I had a hard time because I played basketball and it was all cardio, running laps and doing stuff and I think it was more that, I didn't have the knowledge that I have now and we didn't have smartphones and all this fitness of readily available, knowledge was just more available. There was no internet. So my dad was a member of gym and I would go to the gym and work out while also playing basketball all the time.

 

03:42

and I couldn't really put on that much muscle, especially in my upper body. My legs have always been strong. That's more genetics, I think. But now that I know now, and once I got into my 20s, mid 20s, 30, and all that, learning more about fitness, having more access to knowledge and what to do, I actually can put on muscle. And I think if I had known some of those things, I probably could have done that earlier, but yeah. Well, and for me, it's funny because I feel like the older I get, the easier it is.

 

04:11

to put on muscle or I just feel like you start to get like a man's body or like a dad body like just like getting older I feel like yeah like in my mid to late 20s I'm still there but like that's where just with consistency in the gym like doing nothing crazy because people ask me like how do I get in shape it's like consistency man yeah it's definitely that I've always been it's always I think it's in the offered blood because I remember growing up and my dad

 

04:39

ran like five miles probably three or four times a week. And you know this was when, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying gyms and working out hasn't been popular for a long time and I'm not dating myself here, but like late 80s, early 90s, you know there wasn't an anytime fitness on every corner or you know like whatever, there just wasn't that readily. But my parents were always physically active. My dad would, you know, I'd always thought it was crazy to put on his jogging and stuff and go,

 

05:09

Off-run to be gone for 30 40 minutes or whatever and five miles and he did that three So I always had that kind of in my life and then my sister and I have always had the workout bug Like we've definitely had fluctuations in our weight I've definitely had the you know, the freshman 15 and where you're eating way more than no matter But I've always been motivated to work out I think it might just be a genetics thing in our blood because my dad was the same way my mom's kind of the same Way, my sister's like his anal as I am

 

05:39

times more angle. I mean that's good. You know it's a good thing to be like having the blood. So tell me about marketing at the speed of now. What does that mean? You know that's an interesting question. That's kind of the tagline for Radical. Which is Radical is your marketing company. Yep. Which you own.

 

05:59

and you know we're an 18 month old company. I've been in the ad agency business my entire career, almost 20 years and so working for a lot of other people, working for big brands, started Radical 18 months ago with the premise of marketing at the speed of now. And it's an interesting tagline because what it, I think, and I haven't done any focus groups, you know, it's supposed to be the beauty and the curse of myself, I kind of go on instinct a lot. You know, I wrote that down when I was thinking about what we wanted to be as an agency

 

06:29

what I thought was relevant would resonate and differentiate us. And this notion of speed is important, but I think when you hear that, you immediately think, I guess they do everything fast. Yep. Yes, we do. That is one of our pillars, that's one of our core values. And that is that we believe that success loves speed. And so,

 

06:57

We do things fast, but we do a lot of content development. And my thought process is now with smartphones, the ability and the number of platforms to message on that you would be better to be getting content.

 

07:15

that is really good out there quickly so you can read and react to consumer. Obviously, you want it to be on brand and you don't want it to be literally walking in this meeting. It helped me maybe 15 minutes late to us getting started sending an email to a client that ..

 

07:32

you know, we sent her some content over and you know, she's doing what she should do. She's being, she's evaluating that and she's like, well, we really like this one video and but these, these three or four, you know, they just, we just don't like them as much as we like the other. They were on brand, they were animated, they were nice looking videos, they all were. And I think the client would say that too, but they just, but they had a subjectivity around one style. And

 

07:59

So there are four different styles. Four different styles and she liked one the best and the other three were fine, they were not off-brand. And my point back to her was, we need more volume of content out there more quickly so that we're touching more people and let's let the market evaluate that and let's see if what you're saying is right or wrong. Again, we're not promoting being fast.

 

08:23

to rush into doing off-brand or stuff that we aren't comfortable with or that don't represent the company well, but we do operate quickly. And I think we produce honestly, like knowing the industry being in it nationally for the size of agency that we are for the number of people that we're working with in comparison to other.

 

08:49

regional agencies, no one is developing the amount and the quality of content at the speed that we are. So what are your thoughts on quality versus quantity? I think it depends. So I think based on, our whole premise is built on more of the quantity side of it. We probably produce 250 videos a month. That's crazy, bro. And for how many clients?

 

09:18

10 to 15. And so these aren't five second like ugly smartphone. It's high quality. You know? But here's where I would stop and say this because we had this conversation, creative director Mike, we worked together a long time, worked on a lot of big brands, and we had this discussion a lot, back to the speed thing, marketing speed of now.

 

09:45

We wanna do a lot of content really well, really fast so that we can get it out to the market to respond, kind of like the Oreos moment in the Super Bowl. You know, like, I believe in being able to respond quickly and respond quickly with video with high quality content and to let the market guide us versus our own subjectivity. However, when we're working on...

 

10:09

the brand anthem for a large to medium business that needs to tell an emotional story and we really need to make sure it is on brand, on strategy, we need to take our time with that in the right way. And brands need to, and we're not gonna be rushed to, especially Evergreen.

 

10:32

type things that are gonna stick around for a long time. Like a centerpiece to their portfolio. Yeah, we're not gonna rush that out. Now, will our process always be faster, great quality, even for those type pieces? Yes, instead of three months, like maybe another agency or a big agency that's really trying to grind it out and like, yeah, they're trying to do great content and it's gonna be beautiful. Ours might be four or six weeks, instead of three months. Yeah.

 

11:02

at the speed of now ever not worked out for you? Like have you gone too fast? I think the answer would be yes. You know, we're 18 months old and I've done this a long time but it doesn't mean I know everything, most certainly. And there are moments where I look back on some things and go that might not have been.

 

11:29

the best foot forward that I would have wanted in that moment. But you know what, at the same time that I say that and reflect on that, there would have been no foot forward if I had, or the client and I had deliberated on it forever. Because, you know.

 

11:45

So was it, you can get real self-critical moving quickly, because you go, all right, well, why did we do that? What were we thinking? Especially one of our most known clients, Dr. C. Rich Constantine, I won't call him, he is not the dancing dentist. He's like the furthest thing. He's a dentist that can dance. Honestly, and so I met him at Core24, the gym. I just introduced myself. And dude, that guy is just.

 

12:14

Genuine holy cow just like the nice you ever met a nicer guy. No, I was like, whoa, nothing like you expect Yeah, but there were some things with him because his stuff was moving so fast. We went viral with that first video We really wanted to keep how many views did it get? We that video has been been seen worldwide over 500 million times 500 million times and zero paid Zero, you didn't pay for any ads. That's what no ads not a single advertisement was run

 

12:43

Zero. Okay. All organic, all driven by the original viral video on Facebook. And then with the gasoline that we poured on with PR, with getting news releases, getting...

 

12:55

the name out there spreading it more going on the largest TV station in the Middle East their morning television show all via Skype going on Good Morning America, going inside edition I reached out to contacts at ABC News so we poured gas on an already growing fire but it became you know went from you know garage fire to a full on. Like this might be too soon. Yes for a long time. Amazon fire I don't know. Yeah it might be too soon. Yeah probably. Probably.

 

13:25

I didn't say that, I stayed away from that. I was starting to go towards like a California wildfire. I'm like, geez, people, that's just not the right way to go. But I think you get the analogy. But yeah, and so over 500 million views. There was times when I look back at some of the things that we did for him, some follow-up content, because we were keeping the flame going. I mean, what people don't realize, they all remember that first video. We did like seven or eight dance videos after that that all got over 20 million views.

 

13:55

standalone, like what's funny is you get invited on Ellen if you get over a million views on one video. He probably, we had seven videos with over 20 million views. That's crazy. So.

 

14:07

So he posted one by himself that started to go viral. Is that what happened? And then it started going crazy, so he contacted you? We were working together already. Oh, from the beginning. Yeah, I'd given him his tripod, and we were talking about stuff. But his girls at work told him about the video about the dance challenge, and knew he could dance, and told him to do it. And I managed his Facebook page. And was this Drake's? It was Drake's in my feelings. So I managed his page,

 

14:37

you know, his admin on all his accounts and everything like that. So we were already working together. But I had been encouraged, I was like, dude, you're a good looking guy, you got a great personality, you gotta be out in front of the camera more. But his girls told him in the video, he used, I think he used the tripod that I had given him, he set it up, and then, you know, like he sent me a message, or my phone starts dinging anyway because of all the likes and stuff that started coming in, and he sent me a message.

 

15:07

I think I want to say, and he was debating even taking it down at one time, because he was just like, I think he was just, he was embarrassed because he's just a shy guy, he's genuine. And I'm like, dude, you know what's happening? I was like, I'm coming to your office. I was like, no, you're coming, get Trish, you're coming to my house. Trish and his wife and him were over at my house like that night till late.

 

15:29

And I was just like dude, we're game planning like so we were game planning from there You know how to like really I mean it was it was going viral on its own but really that's when I started calling media contacts from my days in New York and Board gas. I'm sure the plan for him was not to Have it seen millions of times but maybe like thousands of times in his market. Is that what his expectation was? It was totally It was totally like hey, it's a dance challenge. I'm trying to open up

 

15:59

me to be on camera more, my people had already been challenged, telling me I needed to do more and it was a random thing and he's a good dancer, you know, and so it was just like the meeting of all of those things and then, you know, you can't plan for that. I have clients now, oh, you want to go viral? I'm like, I've never marketed that, we are not the viral agency. But you know what's back to if we swing enough times at bat, more content, more volume, the

 

16:29

maybe not 500 million views, but are more likely. Yeah, that's been my experience with more content and letting just the audience decide of on my platform just releasing, like of course I always think it's good, but then they don't always think it's good, or maybe not the best or better, you know? And so it's cool just to kind of go through that process and learn just like, I'm not.

 

16:57

putting stuff to like what they like.

 

16:59

necessarily, but what do they find useful or beneficial? Like what do they want to help them in my arena? Not just like, hey, let me just make everything you want. It's, okay, how can it resonate with you and then how can I make it in a way that hits you? That's right. And it's been cool. Like definitely producing more content has got me in a practice that also produces quality. So doing more quantity has helped me get more quality content.

 

17:29

And I, you know, somewhat related, if anything, and you know, we meet as a team at least every other week. I mean, we're together all the time. We're in a very collaborative workspace. We use the benefits of our co-workspace as our team here collaboratively, so I feel like we're always together, but we get at least in the meeting room once every couple weeks. And I just have been hammering this, is we've gone the other direction. We've slowed down because we've let the,

 

17:59

I'm so proud of my content bug. Catch us. What do I mean by that? Well, when Radical first started, there's a time and a place for the.

 

18:11

Perfect DSLR slow-motion shot. Yeah, that's beautiful And there's a time and a place where you know for our video people holding up my smartphone I Shot when it was me and a couple other people when radical first started with a few clients We did a lot of smartphone stuff, you know, and it worked just as well for the for the right types of things again Not the brand anthem videos, but for the the fast quick content micro content type things and

 

18:41

a little bit in our, because I look at our volumes and different things like that, we're still killing a lot of other agencies and a lot of other brands, the brands that are working with us are doing a lot more video content than others. But we've gotten a little bit to, and look, I wanna have, I'm very proud of our work, I'm very proud of our quality, I think if you go look at our pages, you produce really nice stuff.

 

19:02

But we've let ego and a taste for quality in our own minds.

 

19:12

for slipping to everything and not just those pieces like I discussed that need to be that way. And so I've challenged my team, we're actually going and getting a little more nimbler and doing a little bit more, you know, run and shoot type things like we were doing in the beginning and then finding those moments. So you can kinda, and that's all back to, and I struggle with this because I used to do more videos of myself like stories and I'll blame getting busy. I also blame my own

 

19:42

It's not like I'm I can turn it on but I'm probably I'm actually more of an introvert data nerd like, you know My I sit with my digital media team the most because I can get I like love the data and like dig into that stuff and I can sit on my desk all day kind of like run reports testing some ad combos and do things like I nerd out on that stuff

 

20:01

I can flip the on-camera guy switch, I do have that ability, but it's not my natural thing either. You know, I just don't naturally get in front of my story camera all day. Even though I know that I should, you know, and I teach, and I tell my clients that they need to be doing it. But it's funny how, you know, we can kind of...

 

20:25

I don't know, get in our own, it's not even I get in my own head. I just have gotten to like, we're busy, we're doing other things and I selfishly am not doing it as much as I want to be doing it. Okay. Well I'll ask in a couple of weeks how the stories we can, we can start with a story today. Perfect. Um, so what's something if someone is saying, Hey, I don't want video content or

 

20:51

I don't care about social media. What marketing tip could you give that person? Let's just say, well, I have some ideas. What are your tips for someone who's just like, I don't care about videos, I don't care about social media. Why does marketing matter to me? Here's why, okay, you started down the path and I had a good answer in that last little bit. Okay, no, start there. Start with the first answer. First tip. Uh-huh.

 

21:19

Own your customer. What do I mean by that? So in this day and age, um, you need to own the relationship with your, with your customers, your clients, whether that's big or small, what do I mean by that emails, phone numbers, first and last names.

 

21:41

There's a lot of companies that we start working with, and I'm not talking about so you can data breach them. I'm just saying so that you can communicate with them. They're your customer. Whether that's email, whether that's calling them. But if you're a small business where you only have seven clients, it's about having their phone number and their email to directly one-to-one communicate with them, not talking about spam.

 

22:04

But there's a lot of companies that we work with that don't really own their customer data. And they don't take advantage of that relationship and nurturing it. And nurturing it in contextual ways. Like, okay, I work with you with this service. You would naturally be interested in that service. And I would be, so I'm an accountant. But I'll also do X and Y that are related to that. Are you having that communication with them? And you know, I'll use the word upsell.

 

22:34

cross-sell, but in a contextual way, not a spammy way. And so, if you don't want to do social media, and you don't want to do videos,

 

22:45

then do email marketing or one-to-one text marketing. Or, but again, own your customer data, nurture them, take care of them through communication. And that is marketing at its core in a lot of ways, especially with customer-based marketing. And I think that's one avenue. Everyone in business thinks about prospecting. How do I get more customers? How do I get more, how do I get more? But if you will nurture your existing customers,

 

23:12

Number one, they'll stay with you. Number two, they will refer you. And number three, they'll help grow you. And so that is like tip uno numero uno. It has nothing to do with content.

 

23:24

Just really treating like you said own your customer But like really like building that relationship with your current customer. I like that. So you mentioned an accountant so They're probably not going to be running, you know social media ads, but how can Their career why does marketing matter to their career of just? Day to day or trying to get a promotion or do better at their job I will say this

 

23:52

whether it's a lawyer, whether it's a doctor, whether it's an accountant, some of those tried and true services, and everyone kind of thinks that same thing. And I even thought it at one point, but now, and it took maybe running my own agency and doing what I've done the last 18 months, think about this, if an accountant, even if he's a numbers guy,

 

24:15

but would do stories and would do content on social media, educating and making it interesting. And if he can't be that, then hire an agency. You know, you don't have to pay them tens of thousands of dollars, they're a small business agency, radical, you know, that will do this affordably. And do interesting content as an accountant.

 

24:38

Hello, who wouldn't want to be doing business with that accountant? They could break down the walls of what the heck is going on in this balance sheet and it's boring and it's boring and like, yeah, the numbers aren't that interesting and it would take some strategies and some work out what that is. But that code can be cracked for anyone. And I'd be running Facebook ads and doing that. If an accountant came to me and said, look, I see what you're doing. We want it to be radical. Like an accountant could be radical. A lawyer could be radical. We've tried to work with a couple of them.

 

25:08

couldn't get out of their own way. But there are legal challenges in finance and in law, but being a human and showing humanity and not being looked at as a commodity or in a lawyer sense, some negative connotations, there's ways to do social with that as well. What, so you mentioned someone getting in their way with you.

 

25:38

with your clients, what's, if you can say, what's one pet peeve that's like, oh man, if you would just do this, you would see exponential engagement or business or whatever. You know, we don't, that's kinda like sometimes the.

 

25:59

the assumption that agencies have working with clients. If they just do everything, we know everything. And they know nothing about marketing or whatever. I never enter into a relationship with a client or a business and pretend that I know everything. Because there's nuances to business. Even if it's e-commerce, there's nuances to sports supplements versus beauty and healthcare, those kind of things, there's nuances. And so I don't step into it pretending to have

 

26:29

and like, well, if you just listen to everything that we said. But I do find that the general pitfalls are around. Ego of how we've always done things and an inability to. Try and test something for long enough to truly know if it could work.

 

26:56

And you know, kind of that example I gave before, you know, well we like this one and you know, these three look okay but they're not as cool as that one. You know, like, that is not a scientific way with which to, you know, expand and grow your business. And so,

 

27:18

It's hard to get solopreneurs, like individual entrepreneurs that are real set in their ways. I had a meeting with one a couple weeks ago, super bad ass guy, like just super knowledgeable and knows his stuff, but he's kind of been sitting at this one point. Makes a pretty good living, but he's never cracked the code. For the next level. He's never scaled. And...

 

27:45

We sat in the room and gave him two hours worth of graded advice and he won't do any of it And it's not because he he took it to heart. He knew everything that we were saying was right or Good good tips or good thoughts or good things that he should try But then it came back to Yeah, but I just did this on the website and I really like it focus group of one

 

28:10

the worst way to judge anything and that doesn't mean you don't go on your gut like we're all like I do a lot on my gut I said at the beginning and like yeah got it by your gut but like if you really want to grow and you really want to scale you've got to push past the solopreneur or the focus group of one mentality mm-hmm and that's harder than people

 

28:36

It's not easy, but you gotta. Well, cause we always think we're right. We do. It's funny. I always think I'm right, and then, luckily I think I'm pretty open-minded that sometimes I'm like, oh, okay. I try something and it's like, oh, it's working.

 

28:57

So how did you like, did you stumble into marketing or how did you first mark major at Clemson? Okay. So how did you know that you wanted to do it? Oh, you know, the honest truth is

 

29:13

I think like I grew like my my family I grew up with a lot of my parents were entrepreneurs growing up my grandfather's an entrepreneur I Definitely felt like I had like that business slant and I always felt like I Had that creative side to me. I wasn't like an artist growing up I didn't draw or anything like that, but I think I kind of had that a creative brain and so

 

29:42

I think those things combined and I think my girlfriend at the time was going into marketing and so it all came together. But there was some, there was both art and science in that decision. The science of the former of what I said and the art of the latter. Full transparency there. Full transparency. And then it worked out.

 

30:08

And then that same girlfriend who I was actually no longer with, there's some irony in this. She was working at an ad agency. We were still friends.

 

30:21

And she gave me a really good referral, you know, saying don't ever burn your bridges. And so two months out of Clemson, went to work for Erwin Penland, EP and Co. now here in Greenville, their largest agency in the state. And so started there in 2001. Look, don't burn your bridges, that's smart. So let's, I like to say, let's pimp yourself out a little bit. Can you name the campaigns and the companies you've worked with?

 

30:51

Yeah. Um, we won't be humble. Let's go. Um, we, um, a little backstory that gets you there. Um,

 

31:05

Irwin Penland's largest clients and the one I was hired to work on was Verizon. It was a small Southeast, not small. I mean, it was a $3 million piece of business, you know, annual retainer, which is for an agency, EP side. That's a large piece of business. When I started there, they had a Southeast. We managed retail advertising for all their stores in the Southeast. They have a ton of communication stores had a lot more than it's a lot of us going to e-commerce, but back then there was, you know, Verizon stores on every

 

31:34

stores and all that and we did all of the marketing one was store support for the southeast and so there's a lot of stores and so we had that piece of business we also did kind of managed everything for those stores customer based communication so any customers that went to those stores specifically Verizon thinks about their customers more nationally now but

 

31:57

regional communication, if you walk into the store, the graphics you see, the ads you see in the newspaper, ran a ton of newspaper ads and radio. My first job was like trafficking, a hundred like when newspapers was like everything. Like we'd have to, in every ad, every, people don't know this, but every newspaper had a different size and different ad sizes. So you'd have this eight by five ad that you'd create and get the client to approve, but then you'd have 300 in one market

 

32:27

newspapers, you'd have to shrink it a little bit, make it a little bit. And the variables within that ad, you don't have some of the software that you have now that automates some of these things. It was just very graphic design driven. You'd have to shrink it down. Sometimes you might have to remove an element. If it's a big busy ad, you might take something out and you gotta get that approved, you gotta proof the legal. Oh, this is a glamorous job. Let me just tell you when I first got it. Proofing all those ads, getting them out, same thing with radio. We'd have different radio reads,

 

32:57

but depending on the state and the city, they have different disclaimers that you need, like legal, so I did that starting out. And not so glamorous first year, but I made a lot of relationships with Verizon, made a lot of good contacts. I was promoted five times in like four years. And so.

 

33:20

I came really, I was good at relationship, but I was also really aggressive internally at EP with like, give me more, give me more, give me more. Like if someone would leave that was above me, even if I had had the job for a month, I want their job, I will do their job. And my boss at the time, Alan Bosworth, he always gave me an opportunity. He said, until you fail. And I don't think I ever let him down. I wasn't perfect and I didn't get everything right, but I knew how to step into a role,

 

33:50

But I had relationships with Verizon. And so that led to national opportunities, building those relationships with me and other people on my team. It certainly was not a me show. We had a great team. Guys that are still even over there. Chief Growth Officer Jeff Hoffman and I. Alan, my boss, he played air cover. I think we just, Curtis Rose, Catherine Sloan, who's now Catherine Schaeffer. But we had a really great core team.

 

34:20

that really grew and grew our relationships. And we kinda did the same thing, started doing the same thing, and I was seeing me stepping into roles we didn't even belong in. We were in meetings at Verizon that this little little agency in South Carolina probably didn't really belong in, but we'd go, we can do that. They'd talk about something they needed to get done. We can do that. Could we do it? Had we ever done it? No. Could we figure out how to do it? Yes. And so we became that scrappy agency, and we took a $3 million to 45 million over 12 years.

 

34:50

We worked on everything from Can You Hear Me Now? to the Apple iPhone launch, which came on to Verizon, we shepherded them in. All the stuff with the NFL, all the original content with Drew Brees, the training ground, which was a big traveling tour of going to all the NFL cities when Verizon and NFL Mobile first got their deal.

 

35:14

The Droid, which was, when the iPhone first came out, you had the Droid that came in, the Android, first Android phone, we were involved in all of those campaign developments with the, we had the campaign, I can't do this, I can't do that. That was Droid's first, kind of first foray playing against the iPhone. So we worked on all of those things. And so Verizon was kind of the bread and butter. But then while that was going on, got involved with,

 

35:44

or helped open the New York office for EP. We were- So they weren't there before? They weren't in New York. So we opened the New York office. I lived in New York for four years. Kept the place here. It was kind of back and forth, but lived in New York. And worked on, got pulled into other meetings.

 

36:03

some Budweiser stuff for Hill Holiday. It's actually a large agency in Boston that owns EP. And so it's actually part of a big IPG conglomerate. I won't get into all of it. I guess I did a little bit there, but the ad world and how it revolves, it's all very incestuous. But nonetheless, worked on a number of campaigns for them,

 

36:33

marketing and campaigns Denny's everything was crazy man like I'm sure is there anything that sticks out from your hat in your head of like what you've learned from all of those big campaigns

 

36:51

You know, yes, there is, there's like a serious side and then there's a not so serious. Let's hear both, I love it. I'll start non-serious. The not serious was kind of back to the premise of like radical now, which is like, technology and the ability, like video was always put on this pedestal, you know, it costs like, even five or seven years ago, to get a really nice, even at the lowest level, nice 60 second, two minute brand video, you're gonna spend 10 grand. You know, that was insane.

 

37:21

seven years ago, like at the low level. In a big agency, you're gonna spend $150,000 to $500,000 for that same type of content. And 10 years, 15 years ago, it was unheard of. I sat on...

 

37:34

million dollar budget 30-second commercial spots that's all it was can you hear me now spots with you know not every one of them because we started to templatize some of that but some of like the NFL stuff and other we're just getting a 30-second commercial that's gonna go on all these TV's million to produce like you charge them a million bucks yes and now it was a call with all of the resources that were there it wasn't like the agency was making 40% margin on that it wasn't you know it is but

 

38:00

So what have I learned? Like that has been really interesting. And that's not even driven by the campaigns, but just by the budgets. You just, the money spent even on marketing then and now is so ridiculous with it at the large brand level. And some people I think, especially younger people and even myself, I'm naive to how lucky we are. Yeah. Like social media is free. Yeah, exactly. You know, it doesn't, I don't care if you get 10 likes, it's free. Yeah. You know, like you can make a viral video for free. Like we take it for granted.

 

38:30

And because we don't remember those days of, man you had to pay like 10 grand for what you can make in your home with your phone in a few hours. Yeah. That's super cool. It is cool. So that is such a shift, you know, and that is related to not necessarily the campaigns themselves, but just the size of the client, the changing of the technology and stuff like that. On the more serious note,

 

38:59

What hasn't changed, and Mike and I talk about this a lot, and you know, it matters for smaller business too, but it definitely matters for medium to larger brands that have to really live their brand at a bigger scale. The big idea in creativity is the ultimate differentiator. And so what do I mean by that?

 

39:28

really great strategy built on insight into a consumer mindset fuels great creativity and ideas for example can you hear me now?

 

39:43

that came out of a really great insight, which is at the time in 2000, it was we never stopped working for you for a while, that was Verizon's tagline, then it changed to Can You Hear Me Now, which was never really a tagline, it was more the statement, we never stopped working for you was really more the tagline, more empowering. But

 

40:05

Can you hear me now? It's so simple, but it came out of this premise at the time. Verizon has the best network. People hated drop calls. All the other networks, they all had drop calls, but Verizon was the best.

 

40:18

And it came out of just that simple insight of consumers don't want to deal with drop calls and what could make them relate to that in a way that brings that emotion and that thought back up to them. And everybody knows when you say, I can't stop saying it now, even to this day, it's less of a challenge because luckily we don't have as many drop calls and we text and do a lot of things besides talking. This other day, I mean, I can't stop saying it, I'm like, still in the vernacular. You'll say when someone, you can't get through, can you hear me now?

 

40:48

that was really based on that insight of, you know, and it's so simple. And even to this day now, and just do it, just other things, you know, that was an empowering statement, but it was built on a consumer insight at the time, that has not changed. And the great differentiator from one brand to the other is still creativity backed by sound strategy. That's cool. And...

 

41:18

Because I know before Radical, before you started Radical, what was the other business that you were? I owned a dealership, I drive on demand, customer cars. You know Carvana, what Carvana's doing now? We were doing it in 2012. That's crazy, so you're definitely the entrepreneur and you've moved up in companies. What made you decide that, okay, I'm gonna start doing stuff on my own now?

 

41:47

You know, I get asked that a lot, either on podcasts or just in part. And I think I am definitely, there's entrepreneurship in my blood. I think I'm reasonably good at it. I don't have it all figured out, but.

 

42:04

I could totally work for someone else. Again, I am not, a lot of people assume, like, you just don't, you can't work for anyone. You're so sick, like, no. I have no problem working for anyone else. Both of my situations have been more...

 

42:24

You know, leaving EP, not really having a job there if I wanted to come back here, and needing to get back to Greenville, went through a divorce, and my kids were here, I wasn't gonna stay in New York, I wanted to be with them. And I wanted to be back here anyway, I'd had my fill in New York. Love New York, but it's a tough place to live, especially if you have kids and family and all that.

 

42:47

It was more out of just necessity. Like I had the idea with the car thing with a partner that was already doing it. You know, so I kind of like franchised his idea a little bit. Um, and it was just like, I'm going to try this and it was a good time in my life in a transition period. It wasn't I'm quitting and I'm going to go do it for myself. I'm going to, you know, fist to the man. You know, it wasn't, it's never been that for me. Like it was just more the opportunity at the time was like, okay, I want to do this. I guess I got to start it myself.

 

43:17

you know, had the funding to do it and did it, it didn't pan out, I just, more, it didn't do wonderfully, combined with, I didn't want to be a car dealer or salesperson, I'm dealing with, there's just stuff that came with it that I just didn't think I was gonna have to deal with, that I did have to deal with. Didn't want to do that rest of my life, I was a better marketer than a car operator. And went to work for someone else in between as the chief marketing officer in another agency.

 

43:50

the vibe and the culture didn't line up for what I wanted to do and be more than, Oh, I'm, I can't wait to get my own business started again. This necessarily, I always had a thought in my process of I stayed in the ad agency business that I might start my own agency, but like, if for some reason there had been another EP size agency in Greenville that needed someone at my senior level, I might would have just gone over there for a few more years. I might would have eventually started radical, but it might not have been,

 

44:20

like this and I you know I think it's gonna work out it's been so far but things didn't work out again I have no I really don't mind working for someone else but I enjoy it and now that I've had a taste of it it's a little bit hard to go back because you kind of do set your own schedule make you know and it's not because I get to play golf every day it's not I'm not there yet I don't know if I'll ever want to be there but but it's

 

44:49

I think it's definitely in the offer blood. I think I, I'm not scared of it. You know, a lot of people don't become entrepreneurs just because they're scared of it. You know, like I've got a, I'm responsible for my own check. I'm like really responsible. Like not just clock it in, you know, like that, that doesn't scare me. Like I'm not intimidated by that. Um, doesn't mean I don't worry about it or think about it or, you know, have all of our moments of doubt and all that. No, of course I do, but I've never, yeah, it doesn't

 

45:16

It's never been a paralyzing. That's probably more the inside of me than anything is for good, bad, or indifferent, and I was not a wild child or some crazy person that's always, I'm just not that person, but I've just never been paralyzed by decision in anything in life. I'm not, I just, I don't live my life that way.

 

45:44

And that is, I don't think that is something, you can train that.

 

45:53

I'm not saying you can't get there. I'm not saying you can't be coached and mentored and all that, you can improve. But that's just been a gene inside of me. So you're saying you're not afraid just to pull the trigger to see what's gonna happen? Yeah, that's never been. Cause you're not afraid of if it works out, awesome, if it doesn't, I can just do something else. Yes, there's something in my head that's probably both crazy and wonderful at the same time. Terrible, wonderful, and crazy at the same time that I've just never been paralyzed by indecision.

 

46:22

Yeah, do I think about things sometimes? Do I rattle around like anyone? Of course. Like it's not because, oh, well, I'm just gonna jump off this bridge, you know, or like, no, it's not like that. So I'm saying it wasn't like I was some crazy wild child that was, you know, um, but I've just never.

 

46:39

been paralyzed in making those. No, I think that's I mean that's a huge strength. Let's slightly almost 180. What is the role that self development, well first let me preface this. So I first met you, I moved to Greenville about seven months ago and my fourth day here I went to GVL Hustle which is a networking event that you put on and I remember meeting you there. And so you are definitely.

 

47:07

It is business, but it there's a lot of like motivation and self-development there. So what? What role does self-development play in your life? I think that You know, we all can have continual growth and you know, you're never done It's kind of back to that You know, there's certain premises in certain things about myself, you know, they're not paralyzed by growth or whatever, but I believe in

 

47:38

you're never like stuck in a certain mindset or certain thing. And I had been getting to a place the last four to five years where reading books and doing podcasts and like learning about those things where I felt like.

 

47:55

I wanted to be a part of sharing that same mentality while also that disconnect. And I think we've talked about this to some of the Givo hustles like tower and I both being in Greenville, but I was in New York for awhile. I have family and kids. I'm not, I didn't feel like connected to the community, even though I'm from Greenville born and raised and been successful and done things, but I didn't feel connected. So I think it was the.

 

48:25

One, wanting to help Greenville and wanting to share, and at least not just because I knew it all, but at least provide a place where those things, that growth can happen, combined with wanting to be more connected to the community. And so it was like the intersection of those two things. And that's where, you know, I've just, I've taken more to heart, you know, the personal growth side.

 

48:52

You know, like we all go through challenges and changes. You know, I've been through divorce. I've seen the worst of myself. I've seen the best of myself, but I think I've always known there's a delta of opportunity to grow at all times. And you know, how do I manifest that? Yeah. What's your advice to someone who is in the worst, like they're seeing the worst side of themselves right now?

 

49:20

and they're just stuck there. Like, they're just lost in this place of, I don't like who I am, what do they do to get out? You know, there's two sides to that.

 

49:34

You know, there's one part that I get uncomfortable talking about, like the mental health side. There's like this fine line there, like there, and that's even doing what we do. Like that was always like in the back of my head, like this fine line of being a mental health professional and being personal growth. Like, you know, it's a fine line sometimes it is. And so I get.

 

49:58

I try to leave the mental health side to the professionals. Yeah, that's good. But on the personal side, you know, it's so interesting, like thinking about like some of my like worst moments personally or professionally. You know, there's like a certain time where you just have to look in the mirror and say this too will pass.

 

50:28

But you have to just make a plan and go do it. There has to be action. Like the pity party has, everyone I've had, I've thrown, I've had banners, I've had streamers, I've had airplanes flying by at my pity parties. Like literally, you know, hot air balloons. That's awesome. Like clown, I invited clowns over for my pity parties. Like, you know, we can all have them. And so it's not about, okay, get off your tail and go make it happen. You know, that's not what I'm saying.

 

50:58

But like, but at a certain point you have to decide a to B to C and I'm at A and here's the, these are where I decide where you want to get to. Like don't even worry about the map yet. Let's just decide we're going to Idaho, you know, like, but you got to decide you're going to Idaho. Like.

 

51:22

decide that I'm going to be, okay, I failed as a lawyer, but I'm going to be a financial advisor, whatever, and get there and start taking steps to do it. You know, like map out the plan, write it down, create a journal, write down your goals and go do it. And like action. Like all that assumes.

 

51:50

that you've got the mental health side taken care of.

 

51:53

because that's where I don't pretend to give advice or know if there's something chemically or like that's just such a hard space. Like sometimes that can be the problem. Yeah, there's been challenges and pitfalls, things that happen, but like, if there's a mental health challenge there, that needs to get figured out before you'll ever get to where you're going, you know? So it's a delicate balance there. But assuming that part's worked out and this is just a pity party, you know, banners, streamers, clowns.

 

52:23

Yeah, dude, that's I think that's really good advice because I feel like the pity party we just get stuck there Yeah, and you don't you can't see a direction. You don't know where to go. You can't even see

 

52:35

You know, I heard one quote when this cheesy quote, but I still like it about a GPS doesn't give you five steps ahead. It just tells you the next turn. Yeah. You know, like just what's that next turn? What's point A? Just go to a yeah, go to Idaho. Yeah. And then from there, you can decide where to go. I'll give you a quick story. Yeah, let's do it. So first year at Clemson.

 

53:02

I think the first semester I had a.9 GPA. No way. First semester, I mean it was like, 9. Or 1.9. It was a.9. I was gonna say. 1.9. It was a.9. Yeah, no, 1.9. 1.9 GPA. Second semester, I think it was like 1.98. Like it was just no better. My parents ripped me out of school. And so I took a year off and.

 

53:28

I knew I needed to, like I had no direction. Like I was just partying, having a good time, like somewhat going to class, but I had no idea what I was trying to get done. You know, I was just there at school. I was a marketing major, but like. And so I went and worked at a place called Steak Out. Yeah. Steak delivery. And I, you know, went and delivered steaks.

 

53:52

And I made good money considering I was like a 19 year old driving my Honda around, driving steaks, tips were pretty good. And went and did that, like dad's like, you're gonna get a job. And I'm like, all right, drive around in my car and make some pretty good tips. Okay, I'll do that. Yeah.

 

54:12

Went and worked there, worked there for like three months or a couple months, and they pulled me into the store. They're like, this guy's not the average, maybe, stakeout employee, I don't know, whatever. Became the manager of the stakeout within five months. Is like a 19 year old. This is the pride and joy here. But was making like $40,000 a year. What? That's not that bad. That bad is a 19, I think I might have turned 20 in the middle of that.

 

54:41

And so like, but I had to make a concession. I gotta go back. I'm not gonna work. But I had to give up 40,000. Like as a 19, 20 year old, never had really any money. You know, I was like, oh, I don't know. Just keep doing that. But I knew and gave that up. But the point was I was in a real pity party before deciding, okay, I don't have it figured out yet. But step one might be going and being a barista at the coffee house. While you figure out what you wanna do with your life. You know, like, or whatever.

 

55:11

You don't want to be here, you're having a pity part or something didn't work out, go work a stake out for a little while and get your shit together. Doesn't mean it's permanent. And figure out what you want to do with your life. But then map out the steps to get there. And maybe you'll figure out, hey I want to be a barista and an artist and that's gonna make you happy. You decide what's gonna make you happy. And then map it out to get there. Yeah, I like it. What are your thoughts on, I'm curious, I'm really curious on your thoughts with this.

 

55:41

the balance of like kind of trusting what will work out. I'm not sure if that you can call it fate or just trusting the universe versus creating and working for it. Like what is your thesis on that?

 

56:02

Take the question one more time. I wanna make sure I'm getting it. You're good. So, like, what is your belief around how much do you have to work for something to make it happen versus, hey, that's just not meant to be or that is meant to be or trusting that everything's gonna work out? I am a very, I have very, like,

 

56:24

on the scale of fate versus making it happen? Here, there we go. I think I might rephrase that question. All right, so like, you know, like the balance of the scale, me personally.

 

56:36

I'm 90% the make it happen guy and 10% fate. Back to that analogy, like promotions at EP, asking, taking action towards things that I had no business like even asking for. I'm just like go do it, like I'll go figure it out. And sometimes, sometimes it's kinda like back to the marketing speed now, like my whole life is like marketing speed. It's like sometimes.

 

57:04

a wait and see approach might've been better. Hmm. But more times than not, the go make it happen has served me well. And I do believe in higher powers and I believe in things are meant to be. I totally do believe that, but I believe that those things can be influenced by going and make it happen too. Yeah, that's kinda like where I am. I'm like.

 

57:34

Like give it your all go make it happen. If it doesn't happen try try again if it doesn't happen Try something else. Yeah, you know, it's like Just keep trying. You're gonna have to try but yeah, I've why I asked that just cuz I've been toying with this idea of like

 

57:54

effort and then effortless just like sometimes when it's easy is when it really kind of clicks like a really good idea You know instead of like trying to force this man like Verizon How can we think of something to like make this blow up but someone just? Can you hear me now? Yeah, that's like easy. It is what's funny like I had that conversation with the client too the other day like

 

58:18

You know, we're coming up with like a tagline or a headline for something. It seems like sometimes the first one, the one that you write on the board, is like, it comes quick and it's like, you come back to that one. I don't know what it is. Well, and it's funny because I feel like you still need to go through the other options, so you appreciate that first one. Yeah.

 

58:41

Right, it's like you can't, it's like let's have a good idea and this happens with me all the time that the gut is usually the right answer. But I have to go in a cycle of seeing other possibilities and I'm like yep, my gut was the right choice. But with the speed of now, you trust your gut baby and then you're going. That's right. All right dude, as we wind down, I have a segment that's called Scroll My Soul. So what that means is I keep,

 

59:11

list of inspirational notes from conversations podcast books what have you and I randomly scroll through and so I Picked one I stop and I just ask for your thoughts. What does it remind you of? How does it resonate with you? Okay, cool. Got it. So what I have is when you can't win by being better win by being different So what does when you can't win by being better? win by being different mean to you

 

59:40

Interesting that's cool. No, I like the I like the segment

 

59:50

You know, I'm trying to think of like, we were having a similar discussion with a client that's trying to break into a field. And they don't have the dollars to be, to play in the same sandbox, so to speak. As the other competitors. As the other competitor. And so, in theory, better can be,

 

01:00:18

seem better when you have more dollars to talk more, get your message out more.

 

01:00:25

reaching frequency to give a media analogy. Reach more people more times. So if you see the ad over and over and over again, there's a reason like certain things like advertising actually works. Well, even it's just subliminal messaging dude. You don't even realize it. If you just see it over and over, there's this psychology man. Exactly.

 

01:00:49

But sometimes you have to work harder and be scrappier. And I will actually say, and I'll use radical as analogy, good end point, right? Radical is built on the premise of being different and not better.

 

01:01:10

It's back to the speed of now, which is we are swinging well above our belt line compared to agencies four, five, ten times bigger than us that have better.

 

01:01:26

better bank accounts or better resources, perceived better talent, but we find differentiation in speed, scrappiness, efficiency. And I think you have to work smarter, not necessarily harder, and it is harder.

 

01:01:55

because being different is hard. It's really hard. Because it's easiest to fall into. Like if I had one billion, that'd probably take more than that. If I was just gonna create an absolute duplicate of Amazon, you know, absolute duplicate, and I had the money to do it.

 

01:02:12

It's just money. I mean, I'm not saying money's easy, but you just create it. I feel you. But to create something different than Amazon, but equally as effective, is harder, smarter. Just takes more thinking. It does lead me to the premise of more time sometimes. As much as I hate to say that, but to be different, you have to be brave.

 

01:02:39

I like that man to be different you have to be brave. Yeah, it's more fun though. It is. Well awesome dude. Well Ryan thank you. If you're in Greenville of course, come check out your co-working space. Yeah comraderyco-work.com. Check it out online and then.

 

01:02:57

The small private trail 25 Delano boom. I love it. And yeah, it really is like an awesome trail This is an awesome spot to be at do you have anything else on your heart or mind that you want to say marketing? No, I mean no Follow me at at Ryan offered on Instagram You can find keep up with anything that I'm doing or the agency's doing or camaraderie or GVL hustle And you know, I'm very accessible. I mean, I think you said that you know, like yeah, I can attest

 

01:03:27

So if I can help in any way, I'm here. Yeah, well thank you sir. For real, I appreciate you taking an hour out of your day. My pleasure, buddy. Adios. See ya.